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Let us not forget the Song of the South movie: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South

jjeaff 8y ago
What about it? I watched Song of the South recently. And I have to say that aside from some racial stereotypes, that were not necessarily negative stereotypes, the movie seemed like an earnest effort to portray the black character (Uncle Remus) in a very positive light. The movie did receive condemnation from the NAACP and others. But much of that was based on the erroneous assumption that the movie took place in the antebellum south and thus assumed Uncle Remus was a slave that was just cheerful and happy. The movie does not explicitly identify the time period but the clothing and Disney themselves make it clear that it is post-civil war. The only real controversy was that of a movie that portrayed rosy racial relations and some cliches in a time when racism was rampant and racial relations were poor. But to me there are two schools of thought in regards to Hollywood portrayals like Song of the South. Some think you should tell only the truth and show how awful everything is so people will hopefully change. And others think you should show an idealic fiction that shows how things should be. I tend to think the latter is more effective.
- Stratoscope 8y ago
  Be sure to watch So Dear to My Heart if you get a chance. Made two years later, it's kind of a sister film to Song of the South: similar animation + live action techniques, some of the same actors, and a bit (but not so much) of the same racial controversy. There are certainly things to be criticized about both movies, but I think much of the criticism came from people who never saw them. Walter Francis White's NAACP statement (quoted in the Wikipedia article linked above) is a good example. White didn't see the movie himself, but commented on it based on reports from staff members. As you mentioned, he mistakenly assumed that the film was set during the era of slavery. The thing that sticks in my mind about Song of the South is that Uncle Remus is the hero of the movie. To me, the real tragedy of this film - which portrayed people of different races as friends and companions - was that James Baskett, who played Uncle Remus and voiced a couple of the animated characters, couldn't attend the premiere festivities in Atlanta because it was a segregated city. But how could Disney be to blame for that? And right now I'm regretting having given away my old laserdiscs of Song of the South and So Dear to My Heart. :-(
- forapurpose 8y ago
  > based on the erroneous assumption ... It's too easy for some Internet comment in a few words to write off the serious, long-held concerns of millions of people, not to mention scholars and many others. Great numbers of people have suffered very great and real harm for generations. Perhaps we should be very concerned about what they have to say, so that that harm can stop. The response of ignoring concerns has a long history, as long as the blatant stereotypes in the movie, and have reliably achieve very poor results and great harm. > idealic Ideal for white people - that's always true; race relations have always been ideal (or much closer to it) for white-skinned people. Generally speaking, the predictive model of white-skinned people's view of race relations depends on whether the problems are kept out of sight: If people complain too much about racism, that gets a big backlash; white people become angry. The legal system's abuses, the poverty, the unfunded schools, the lack of services, and African-American people themselves are hidden in separate neighborhoods. As long as it's not bothering white-skinned people, then race relations are good! Films like Song of the South fulfill many white-skinned people's ideal of African-Americans and of race relations. African-Americans have a long history of being defined by white-skinned people rather than by themselves (as do many excluded groups); almost every one you see is filtered through white screenwriters, journalists, researchers, political commentators, politicians, Hacker News commenters[0], etc. Notice the high proportion of African-Americans in fictional media who are criminals, who are poor, and who speak with a heavy urban slang. Believe it or not, those things are not true of the vast majority of African-Americans; most are ordinary people with ordinary jobs and lives, and speak standard English. Having lived in African-American neighborhoods, watching the portrayal on TV and films can be bizarre - it's an alternate reality written by people who have little experience and just toss in stereotypes. Characters like Remus are objects, not people with their own priorities but things that exist to make white people happy and comfortable, both the fictional characters in the films and (especially, of course) the real people who buy tickets. Finally, in that film the long-repeated stereotypes are particularly obvious and overwhelming (IIRC, and many others agree). If the parent doesn't recognize them, I encourage them to learn about the issue. [0] HN's lack of African-American voices is a serious impediment to discussion. It's very rare that any commenters can speak from that point of view. Note that African-Americans are almost always discussed int he third person - 'they' and 'them'.
  - 8y ago

jjeaff 8y ago

What about it? I watched Song of the South recently. And I have to say that aside from some racial stereotypes, that were not necessarily negative stereotypes, the movie seemed like an earnest effort to portray the black character (Uncle Remus) in a very positive light. The movie did receive condemnation from the NAACP and others. But much of that was based on the erroneous assumption that the movie took place in the antebellum south and thus assumed Uncle Remus was a slave that was just cheerful and happy. The movie does not explicitly identify the time period but the clothing and Disney themselves make it clear that it is post-civil war. The only real controversy was that of a movie that portrayed rosy racial relations and some cliches in a time when racism was rampant and racial relations were poor. But to me there are two schools of thought in regards to Hollywood portrayals like Song of the South. Some think you should tell only the truth and show how awful everything is so people will hopefully change. And others think you should show an idealic fiction that shows how things should be. I tend to think the latter is more effective.

Stratoscope 8y ago
Be sure to watch So Dear to My Heart if you get a chance. Made two years later, it's kind of a sister film to Song of the South: similar animation + live action techniques, some of the same actors, and a bit (but not so much) of the same racial controversy. There are certainly things to be criticized about both movies, but I think much of the criticism came from people who never saw them. Walter Francis White's NAACP statement (quoted in the Wikipedia article linked above) is a good example. White didn't see the movie himself, but commented on it based on reports from staff members. As you mentioned, he mistakenly assumed that the film was set during the era of slavery. The thing that sticks in my mind about Song of the South is that Uncle Remus is the hero of the movie. To me, the real tragedy of this film - which portrayed people of different races as friends and companions - was that James Baskett, who played Uncle Remus and voiced a couple of the animated characters, couldn't attend the premiere festivities in Atlanta because it was a segregated city. But how could Disney be to blame for that? And right now I'm regretting having given away my old laserdiscs of Song of the South and So Dear to My Heart. :-(
forapurpose 8y ago
> based on the erroneous assumption ... It's too easy for some Internet comment in a few words to write off the serious, long-held concerns of millions of people, not to mention scholars and many others. Great numbers of people have suffered very great and real harm for generations. Perhaps we should be very concerned about what they have to say, so that that harm can stop. The response of ignoring concerns has a long history, as long as the blatant stereotypes in the movie, and have reliably achieve very poor results and great harm. > idealic Ideal for white people - that's always true; race relations have always been ideal (or much closer to it) for white-skinned people. Generally speaking, the predictive model of white-skinned people's view of race relations depends on whether the problems are kept out of sight: If people complain too much about racism, that gets a big backlash; white people become angry. The legal system's abuses, the poverty, the unfunded schools, the lack of services, and African-American people themselves are hidden in separate neighborhoods. As long as it's not bothering white-skinned people, then race relations are good! Films like Song of the South fulfill many white-skinned people's ideal of African-Americans and of race relations. African-Americans have a long history of being defined by white-skinned people rather than by themselves (as do many excluded groups); almost every one you see is filtered through white screenwriters, journalists, researchers, political commentators, politicians, Hacker News commenters[0], etc. Notice the high proportion of African-Americans in fictional media who are criminals, who are poor, and who speak with a heavy urban slang. Believe it or not, those things are not true of the vast majority of African-Americans; most are ordinary people with ordinary jobs and lives, and speak standard English. Having lived in African-American neighborhoods, watching the portrayal on TV and films can be bizarre - it's an alternate reality written by people who have little experience and just toss in stereotypes. Characters like Remus are objects, not people with their own priorities but things that exist to make white people happy and comfortable, both the fictional characters in the films and (especially, of course) the real people who buy tickets. Finally, in that film the long-repeated stereotypes are particularly obvious and overwhelming (IIRC, and many others agree). If the parent doesn't recognize them, I encourage them to learn about the issue. [0] HN's lack of African-American voices is a serious impediment to discussion. It's very rare that any commenters can speak from that point of view. Note that African-Americans are almost always discussed int he third person - 'they' and 'them'.
- 8y ago