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Why should I have to comb through my imagination looking for a problem that fits this solution? No other technology community has to use so much exposition to c

Why should I have to comb through my imagination looking for a problem that fits this solution? No other technology community has to use so much exposition to convince others why their technology is useful.

chrisco255 8y ago
There are a lot of problems blockchain technology solves. And I would disagree. Personal computers were thought of as mostly useless hobbyist technology until years later when spreadsheets were introduced. Even then, home computers didn't exactly go mainstream until the 90s, when the internet began to take off and OS technology matured (Win 95). Cell phones suffered a similar skepticism up until the networks and pricing models matured in the late 90s. And no one needed text messaging when that first came out. You also couldn't convince most people that a data plan was worth it on the mostly useless browsers of the time.
- nickpsecurity 8y ago
  " Personal computers were thought of as mostly useless hobbyist technology until years later when spreadsheets were introduced." "Cell phones suffered a similar skepticism" The people that invented them could tell you what you might be able to do with them and you'd find that way better than your current situation. Whereas, the design of these cryptocurrencies are worse than our current situation in a lot of ways. The problems they allegedly solve appear to be fixable with better forms of existing technology, law, etc that's used in centralized systems. The people pushing cryptocurrencies never even try to do that. They're ideologically against it rather than looking for whatever solutions are most practical. So, the potential usefulness of the desktop vs the terminals connecting to shared mainframes/minicomputers or mobile phones vs fixed-location phones is nothing like banks, cards, Venmo, and contracts vs Bitcoin or Ethereum. Actually, the current system works so well at what it does that most people are happy with it. The gripes they have are usually on policies, fees, etc that a non-profit, centralized, customer-focused organization can solve. A series of them cooperating via a standard protocol (i.e. better SWIFT) across jurisdictions and currencies can reduce those risks, too. There's nothing about the problems of current system that makes most people think: let's ditch existing currencies, databases, and accounting practices for decentralized, blockchain-based, crypto algorithms. A solution in search of a problem is an apt phrase.
- canoebuilder 8y ago
  Cell phones aren't the best example for you. As soon as economic and technical hurdles were cleared, cell phones became one of, if the most, rapidly and widely adopted technologies ever. Cell phones also provided something genuinely novel and useful for those who adopted them, in a package that was familiar and easy to use. Bitcoin, by comparison, okay I can pay for some things, well I could already do that. I have to adopt hard to understand security measures and my every action with my 'money' is fraught with peril if I'm not exceedingly careful. Well, that's new, but it's not something that appeals to most people.
  - chrisco255 8y ago
    Cell phones are a great example. They had absolutely dismal coverage in the early days and your bill would be hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you happened to roam in the wrong county. No one questions them today, but to many folks, they were a hard sell in the early days. Most folks thought they'd use a cell phone for emergencies only. I don't know how you can look at distributed blockchain technology and not see something genuinely novel there. A set of algorithms and code are capable of replacing the functions of a bank (and then some). That is, you can store, transfer, and program the behavior of money around the world without any third party telling you can or can't. Besides being open source money and all the awesome implications of that, crypto currencies are programmable. You can control the timing and flow of crypto according to scriptable logic. Please explain how you'd write a smart contract that escrows money and disburses according to preconfigured rules using USD. What would you have to do to achieve that with code, today?
miscreanity 8y ago
The technology is useful for exactly the things proponents are trying to fight against. Crypto systems are incredibly powerful control and tracking systems - the ideal tool for banks and governments. That's where the use case is.
tim333 8y ago
Well you don't personally have to comb through your imagination but people see the market cap, currently $390bn and wonder if those things could be worth that or not. And could they make a bob by going long/short.
- root_axis 8y ago
  And? I'm responding to: > Looks like an complete failure of imagination Your response doesn't demonstrate a use for the technology, only that people are throwing money at it hoping to get rich. Communities built around useful technology don't spend so much time trying to convince everyone that the technology is useful.
  - avmich 8y ago
    We may long argue who should prove what and why, pointing to existing successes or failures. For me it's more interesting to figure out if the idea has merit, as to me merit is a hint to value. Bitcoin whitepaper state goals rather clearly, and the problems outlined there aren't going anywhere far right now. So the question is, can cryptocurrencies provide a solution? I'd say it's too early to say. Bitcoin looks like a much more serious idea than this article to me. On that level of analysis approaches like "come on people... etcetera etcetera" seem somewhat half-baked. The imagination jump which creators of cryptocurrencies made is much more significant and deserves a better review. The article is a good reminder that we need to think more here.
    - root_axis 8y ago
      > So the question is, can cryptocurrencies provide a solution? I'd say it's too early to say. Well the stated goals of the bitcoin whitepaper are pretty narrow in scope, but setting that aside... Can cryptocurrency tokens provide a solution? I think the question is undeniably yes, the question then becomes, is the solution practical and do its tradeoffs represent a net benefit compared to the status quo? In this case the answer is clearly no. "Too early to say" is always true in technology so it's essentially meaningless. It's like if I said it's too early to tell if Diaspora will transform the social media landscape... sure, something unforeseeable could make that a real possibility but just like with cryptocurrency all the hype and fanfare has amounted to technically interesting novelty without much substance.

chrisco255 8y ago

There are a lot of problems blockchain technology solves. And I would disagree. Personal computers were thought of as mostly useless hobbyist technology until years later when spreadsheets were introduced. Even then, home computers didn't exactly go mainstream until the 90s, when the internet began to take off and OS technology matured (Win 95). Cell phones suffered a similar skepticism up until the networks and pricing models matured in the late 90s. And no one needed text messaging when that first came out. You also couldn't convince most people that a data plan was worth it on the mostly useless browsers of the time.

nickpsecurity 8y ago
" Personal computers were thought of as mostly useless hobbyist technology until years later when spreadsheets were introduced." "Cell phones suffered a similar skepticism" The people that invented them could tell you what you might be able to do with them and you'd find that way better than your current situation. Whereas, the design of these cryptocurrencies are worse than our current situation in a lot of ways. The problems they allegedly solve appear to be fixable with better forms of existing technology, law, etc that's used in centralized systems. The people pushing cryptocurrencies never even try to do that. They're ideologically against it rather than looking for whatever solutions are most practical. So, the potential usefulness of the desktop vs the terminals connecting to shared mainframes/minicomputers or mobile phones vs fixed-location phones is nothing like banks, cards, Venmo, and contracts vs Bitcoin or Ethereum. Actually, the current system works so well at what it does that most people are happy with it. The gripes they have are usually on policies, fees, etc that a non-profit, centralized, customer-focused organization can solve. A series of them cooperating via a standard protocol (i.e. better SWIFT) across jurisdictions and currencies can reduce those risks, too. There's nothing about the problems of current system that makes most people think: let's ditch existing currencies, databases, and accounting practices for decentralized, blockchain-based, crypto algorithms. A solution in search of a problem is an apt phrase.
canoebuilder 8y ago
Cell phones aren't the best example for you. As soon as economic and technical hurdles were cleared, cell phones became one of, if the most, rapidly and widely adopted technologies ever. Cell phones also provided something genuinely novel and useful for those who adopted them, in a package that was familiar and easy to use. Bitcoin, by comparison, okay I can pay for some things, well I could already do that. I have to adopt hard to understand security measures and my every action with my 'money' is fraught with peril if I'm not exceedingly careful. Well, that's new, but it's not something that appeals to most people.
- chrisco255 8y ago
  Cell phones are a great example. They had absolutely dismal coverage in the early days and your bill would be hundreds if not thousands of dollars if you happened to roam in the wrong county. No one questions them today, but to many folks, they were a hard sell in the early days. Most folks thought they'd use a cell phone for emergencies only. I don't know how you can look at distributed blockchain technology and not see something genuinely novel there. A set of algorithms and code are capable of replacing the functions of a bank (and then some). That is, you can store, transfer, and program the behavior of money around the world without any third party telling you can or can't. Besides being open source money and all the awesome implications of that, crypto currencies are programmable. You can control the timing and flow of crypto according to scriptable logic. Please explain how you'd write a smart contract that escrows money and disburses according to preconfigured rules using USD. What would you have to do to achieve that with code, today?

miscreanity 8y ago

The technology is useful for exactly the things proponents are trying to fight against. Crypto systems are incredibly powerful control and tracking systems - the ideal tool for banks and governments. That's where the use case is.

tim333 8y ago

Well you don't personally have to comb through your imagination but people see the market cap, currently $390bn and wonder if those things could be worth that or not. And could they make a bob by going long/short.

root_axis 8y ago
And? I'm responding to: > Looks like an complete failure of imagination Your response doesn't demonstrate a use for the technology, only that people are throwing money at it hoping to get rich. Communities built around useful technology don't spend so much time trying to convince everyone that the technology is useful.
- avmich 8y ago
  We may long argue who should prove what and why, pointing to existing successes or failures. For me it's more interesting to figure out if the idea has merit, as to me merit is a hint to value. Bitcoin whitepaper state goals rather clearly, and the problems outlined there aren't going anywhere far right now. So the question is, can cryptocurrencies provide a solution? I'd say it's too early to say. Bitcoin looks like a much more serious idea than this article to me. On that level of analysis approaches like "come on people... etcetera etcetera" seem somewhat half-baked. The imagination jump which creators of cryptocurrencies made is much more significant and deserves a better review. The article is a good reminder that we need to think more here.
  - root_axis 8y ago
    > So the question is, can cryptocurrencies provide a solution? I'd say it's too early to say. Well the stated goals of the bitcoin whitepaper are pretty narrow in scope, but setting that aside... Can cryptocurrency tokens provide a solution? I think the question is undeniably yes, the question then becomes, is the solution practical and do its tradeoffs represent a net benefit compared to the status quo? In this case the answer is clearly no. "Too early to say" is always true in technology so it's essentially meaningless. It's like if I said it's too early to tell if Diaspora will transform the social media landscape... sure, something unforeseeable could make that a real possibility but just like with cryptocurrency all the hype and fanfare has amounted to technically interesting novelty without much substance.