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I think that whats missing in this assessment of HR these days, is that interviews are just as much an opportunity for the prospective employee to evaluate thei

by mmjaa 8y ago

I think that whats missing in this assessment of HR these days, is that interviews are just as much an opportunity for the prospective employee to evaluate their potential new employer, as it is the other way around - only, we're seriously NOT used to thinking in these kinds of terms. I've been programming since the 70's, and have built systems and subsystems that are still up and running around the world. If you logged onto an ISP in the 90's and early 00's, chances are you were going through a code-path that I was responsible for .. if you took a train in any one of 38 different countries in the world, in the last 15 years, chances are your life is being protected by code for which I was once responsible. I've done a lot of crazy shit; I've done a lot of cool stuff... I say this only to indicate that I'm no newbie when it comes to software systems engineering, and all it entails: I've shipped to tens of millions of people, and I've shipped to a small, localised group. Point is, I've shipped, yo. A few years ago I went to a job interview at a local game development company, since I have a high interest in game engines and have even built a few of them myself, as well as published a few games over the years. I thought the interview was going well, and at first I hit it off just great with the guys doing the interview .. but then as they started pulling in more and more other engineers to meet and greet, and ask questions, I started to get a feel that I really didn't want to work at this place. Mid-interview, I felt like I should just stand up, say "sorry guys, you're not a good fit for me", and left... but instead I decided to sit through the interview. This was a big mistake - they came with the inevitable whiteboard questions, and so on. So, I flunked them all - not because I couldn't work out the A* algorithm on the board, but because I really lost interest mid-interview. It was only a day or so afterwards, having a bit of retrospective rumination time, that I realised that I just really didn't want to work with those guys. They rubbed me up the wrong way, and there was just something about their culture that I didn't feel for .. well, I should've just said something. I should've said "well, you guys have a great company (it seems), but I'm seeing all sorts of warning signs in this interview, so I think I'll just pass on this opportunity - and thanks!". But instead, I stuck around and ended up just degrading myself with stupid responses to their requests. I didn't really feel like I was in power, or had any control - but honestly, I did. I really could have just stood up and said "well, that last guy you brought in was a bit of a wanker, and I don't want to work in an environment of wankers, so thanks for the opportunity but no thanks".. I think this is a real cultural dilemma. We, builders of technology, should really acknowledge our value, and place it a lot higher than the current HR-infected job market implies. Its a double-edged sword of course - nobody wants to be known as the guy who shits on this interview companies - but on the other hand, why do we put up with such imbalance? EDIT: Just wanted to add that this particular line of the article resonated with me: 'He asked, "But didn't you write an embedded OS?".'. That, right there, is a sign that the interviewer has a very, very poor understanding of the subject, and the talent should just get up and leave. I wonder how many of us overlook this fact in our interviews, out of desperation?

flerchin 8y ago
I need to do this too. It's not polite to waste everyone's time, including mine. Thanks,
inetsee 8y ago
I interviewed once for a job with a defense contractor. Mid-way through the interview I was told that if they decided to give me the job I could expect to work 60 hours a week for the next 18 months without getting paid any overtime. I didn't come out and say so, but I'm sure the interviewer could tell that I wouldn't accept an offer if it was forthcoming. In retrospect, I think I should have said "Thank you for spending the time to talk to me, I don't want to waste any more of our time", and left.
- gaius 8y ago
  I was told that if they decided to give me the job I could expect to work 60 hours a week for the next 18 months without getting paid any overtime I’ll wager whoever said that was a decent guy who liked you and decided to do you a favour.
- souprock 8y ago
  In the USA, I'm pretty sure that violates federal contracting rules. Maybe you ought to report them. As I understand it, they have to pay overtime if you work 48 hours in the week. The typical expectation is thus 47 hours. Perhaps you would not have been directly billed to the customer, possibly making the rules inapplicable. Unpaid overtime is something I expect much more from employers that are not doing government work, particularly the game industry. I've found a very different situation at a federal government contractor. Normal weeks are 40 hours, it is rare to work beyond that, and any extra work means extra pay. BTW, see my "Who is Hiring?" post if you wrote an embedded OS.
pronoiac 8y ago
I'm jobhunting now. Two interviews come to mind. 1. During a technical phone screen for an SRE role, the questions delved into, well, the nitty gritty parts of containerization, as if I were building my own Docker. Afterwards, I regretted not calling out how bored I was by this. I didn't want this to be my day-to-day work, and I disengaged from the questions. I should have bailed. 2. I'd submitted my resume for an SRE role, and a few minutes into a technical phone screen we realized it was for more of an IT role. The interviewer asked if I wanted to keep going, but I opted to pass, as it wasn't a great fit. Talking to the initial recruiter again got the SRE role rolling again. Calling the interview off early saved time for me and the interviewer. If it had been more interesting or relevant, I could consider it practice.

by mmjaa 8y ago

flerchin 8y ago

I need to do this too. It's not polite to waste everyone's time, including mine. Thanks,

inetsee 8y ago

I interviewed once for a job with a defense contractor. Mid-way through the interview I was told that if they decided to give me the job I could expect to work 60 hours a week for the next 18 months without getting paid any overtime. I didn't come out and say so, but I'm sure the interviewer could tell that I wouldn't accept an offer if it was forthcoming. In retrospect, I think I should have said "Thank you for spending the time to talk to me, I don't want to waste any more of our time", and left.

gaius 8y ago
I was told that if they decided to give me the job I could expect to work 60 hours a week for the next 18 months without getting paid any overtime I’ll wager whoever said that was a decent guy who liked you and decided to do you a favour.
souprock 8y ago
In the USA, I'm pretty sure that violates federal contracting rules. Maybe you ought to report them. As I understand it, they have to pay overtime if you work 48 hours in the week. The typical expectation is thus 47 hours. Perhaps you would not have been directly billed to the customer, possibly making the rules inapplicable. Unpaid overtime is something I expect much more from employers that are not doing government work, particularly the game industry. I've found a very different situation at a federal government contractor. Normal weeks are 40 hours, it is rare to work beyond that, and any extra work means extra pay. BTW, see my "Who is Hiring?" post if you wrote an embedded OS.

pronoiac 8y ago

I'm jobhunting now. Two interviews come to mind. 1. During a technical phone screen for an SRE role, the questions delved into, well, the nitty gritty parts of containerization, as if I were building my own Docker. Afterwards, I regretted not calling out how bored I was by this. I didn't want this to be my day-to-day work, and I disengaged from the questions. I should have bailed. 2. I'd submitted my resume for an SRE role, and a few minutes into a technical phone screen we realized it was for more of an IT role. The interviewer asked if I wanted to keep going, but I opted to pass, as it wasn't a great fit. Talking to the initial recruiter again got the SRE role rolling again. Calling the interview off early saved time for me and the interviewer. If it had been more interesting or relevant, I could consider it practice.