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I like to entertain all ideas (I even gave the Finland conspiracy a chance) no matter how crazy they sound. You never really know, especially if you have never

I like to entertain all ideas (I even gave the Finland conspiracy a chance) no matter how crazy they sound. You never really know, especially if you have never even look. When the day comes that there isn't a person around that will challenge their thoughts with something they find crazy, it will be a dark day. Edit: after reading the article I see that my comment is not related.

FRex 8y ago
This sadly sounds like a rip off of the venerable Bielefeld Conspiracy[0], just reapplied to an entire country. I have once entertained starting a conspiracy theory saying that unix shell pipes were originally created to allow piping fortune to cowsay. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy
SubiculumCode 8y ago
It's fine and even fun to entertain a different counter idea, but that is not what these flat earthers and the like do. I know a man that subscribes to these kinds of ideas, although not flat eartherism, and it is definitely seems to stem from a need to find an alternative order to the world because the existing order and/or understanding provides little comfort, hope, and meaning, because they are driven by a need to be special and smarter . These ppl are often also frequently 'inventors' of 'free energy' motors, using mmethods they will say are 'obvious once you think about it but for some reason no one has'. In fact these ppl can be very clever and ingenuous, but have certain mental illnes (depression) and lack education, but perhaps the everyday flat earther prostlesthized on youtube are driven mostly by ignorance and poverty in a hard life needing something, anything, to not be as it seems.
- csydas 8y ago
  I would agree with this, as my interactions largely share the same results. It's not about being right so much as not being wrong. It's a position of arrogance and insolence that is being argued from, not really one of true educational purpose. It's dishonest discourse for the purpose of self-gratification, just like any other poster online looking just for kicks and giggles. There may be an honest belief behind flat-earthers and other such conspiracy theorists, but just observe the similarities between any bargain-bin message board troll and a flat-earth conspiracy theorist and it's easy to see the other motivations that drive the conspiracy theorists. The big thing with conspiracy theories is that everything is evidence of the theory, whether it seems good or bad for the theory. You find indisputable proof that it's wrong, and the truth is twisted to be another conspiracy in and of itself which proves the legitimacy of the original theory. There is some inconclusive data that is the result of a long term study, and that is proof of the theory because the theory can be neatly fitted to the available evidence, barring any scrutiny. It becomes a game of constant mental bouts, bringing in hoards of evidence against often unprepared targets, and truly the only real winning strategy is not to play. The entire point is to surprise and assault an unsuspecting person who is not prepared with the same amount of curated arguments and prepared answer cards. If you've ever caught the sales side of a major organization, you'll know that they often produce "battle cards" for competing products. These battle cards are often built with three points; Attack, Defend, Avoid. Attack tells you how to best attack the competition and their weakest points that can be overcome. Defend tells you how to shore up your own product's weak points, and Avoid tells you want points to absolutely dodge at any cost and how to use the point as a pivot to something better (in order to ignore the difficult point). I see this 100% repeated in conspiracy theory image spam, and you can see the same thing with the message board trolls and how they prep for engaging people. The strategy isn't about arguments based on merit or reason, but instead creating a compelling narrative for an audience to follow. And that's the real target here. Flat-earther conspiracy theorists and other such conspiracy theorists aren't looking to have a discourse and convince any specific person with an opposing view-point. They're looking to put on the greatest show possible to attract the largest audience, and maybe get a few converts along the way. You don't need to be hostile towards conspiracy theorists, but the idea of hearing them out and entertaining their thoughts beyond just a very limited and controlled dialogue is a bad idea, since the theory doesn't expand far beyond just having an alternative theory that bucks the current consensus. So sure, pay attention, and be polite, but also there's a need to be firm, because a lot of this is attention seeking behavior looking for a platform and for credulity, not for a discussion. The idea that they will dive deeper into more outrageous positions and theories is a bit silly, as they would do that anyways; as within any subculture, the desire to be "the most ____" will always drive participants to up the ante and act out in bigger and bigger ways. Whether or not one listens to them is irrelevant.
twic 8y ago
> the Finland conspiracy This, for those like me who had not heard of it, is the idea that Finland does not exist, and there is a conspiracy to make the world think that it does. When really, almost the opposite is true: not only does Finland exist, but it is the surviving part of the Roman Empire: https://imgur.com/gallery/eNuUdTd https://imgur.com/gallery/eNuUdTd

FRex 8y ago

This sadly sounds like a rip off of the venerable Bielefeld Conspiracy[0], just reapplied to an entire country. I have once entertained starting a conspiracy theory saying that unix shell pipes were originally created to allow piping fortune to cowsay. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy

SubiculumCode 8y ago

It's fine and even fun to entertain a different counter idea, but that is not what these flat earthers and the like do. I know a man that subscribes to these kinds of ideas, although not flat eartherism, and it is definitely seems to stem from a need to find an alternative order to the world because the existing order and/or understanding provides little comfort, hope, and meaning, because they are driven by a need to be special and smarter . These ppl are often also frequently 'inventors' of 'free energy' motors, using mmethods they will say are 'obvious once you think about it but for some reason no one has'. In fact these ppl can be very clever and ingenuous, but have certain mental illnes (depression) and lack education, but perhaps the everyday flat earther prostlesthized on youtube are driven mostly by ignorance and poverty in a hard life needing something, anything, to not be as it seems.

csydas 8y ago
I would agree with this, as my interactions largely share the same results. It's not about being right so much as not being wrong. It's a position of arrogance and insolence that is being argued from, not really one of true educational purpose. It's dishonest discourse for the purpose of self-gratification, just like any other poster online looking just for kicks and giggles. There may be an honest belief behind flat-earthers and other such conspiracy theorists, but just observe the similarities between any bargain-bin message board troll and a flat-earth conspiracy theorist and it's easy to see the other motivations that drive the conspiracy theorists. The big thing with conspiracy theories is that everything is evidence of the theory, whether it seems good or bad for the theory. You find indisputable proof that it's wrong, and the truth is twisted to be another conspiracy in and of itself which proves the legitimacy of the original theory. There is some inconclusive data that is the result of a long term study, and that is proof of the theory because the theory can be neatly fitted to the available evidence, barring any scrutiny. It becomes a game of constant mental bouts, bringing in hoards of evidence against often unprepared targets, and truly the only real winning strategy is not to play. The entire point is to surprise and assault an unsuspecting person who is not prepared with the same amount of curated arguments and prepared answer cards. If you've ever caught the sales side of a major organization, you'll know that they often produce "battle cards" for competing products. These battle cards are often built with three points; Attack, Defend, Avoid. Attack tells you how to best attack the competition and their weakest points that can be overcome. Defend tells you how to shore up your own product's weak points, and Avoid tells you want points to absolutely dodge at any cost and how to use the point as a pivot to something better (in order to ignore the difficult point). I see this 100% repeated in conspiracy theory image spam, and you can see the same thing with the message board trolls and how they prep for engaging people. The strategy isn't about arguments based on merit or reason, but instead creating a compelling narrative for an audience to follow. And that's the real target here. Flat-earther conspiracy theorists and other such conspiracy theorists aren't looking to have a discourse and convince any specific person with an opposing view-point. They're looking to put on the greatest show possible to attract the largest audience, and maybe get a few converts along the way. You don't need to be hostile towards conspiracy theorists, but the idea of hearing them out and entertaining their thoughts beyond just a very limited and controlled dialogue is a bad idea, since the theory doesn't expand far beyond just having an alternative theory that bucks the current consensus. So sure, pay attention, and be polite, but also there's a need to be firm, because a lot of this is attention seeking behavior looking for a platform and for credulity, not for a discussion. The idea that they will dive deeper into more outrageous positions and theories is a bit silly, as they would do that anyways; as within any subculture, the desire to be "the most ____" will always drive participants to up the ante and act out in bigger and bigger ways. Whether or not one listens to them is irrelevant.

twic 8y ago

> the Finland conspiracy This, for those like me who had not heard of it, is the idea that Finland does not exist, and there is a conspiracy to make the world think that it does. When really, almost the opposite is true: not only does Finland exist, but it is the surviving part of the Roman Empire: https://imgur.com/gallery/eNuUdTd https://imgur.com/gallery/eNuUdTd