3 ms·

I'm really curious. What about reading this article made you think of Elling and what you refer to as "mentally challenged folk"? Maybe I'm missing something (

I'm really curious. What about reading this article made you think of Elling and what you refer to as "mentally challenged folk"? Maybe I'm missing something (I haven't seen the movie, but from the imdb link you posted, no mention of autism)... but it seems to me like you're saying "having autism = being mentally challenged". Am I misinterpreting? I hope so :(

nkurz 16y ago
Watch the movie first. The description doesn't really do it justice. Separately, though, if you ignore some of the connotations, it does seem fair to call autism a "mental challenge".
- startup_spouse 16y ago
  I will definitely have to watch it. Yes, a "mental challenge" just like it might be a mental challenge for someone without my skill set to do something that I excel at naturally, yet I don't call them "mentally challenged". But that's not the issue. There are some people who, when using "mentally challenged", are relying on your implicit understanding of those connotations to communicate something else. It is by pretending those connotations aren't there that we now have stereotypes about autism, etc. It's why people tell me I don't "look like" I have autism. So, in that sense... I don't think it's fair. But I'm an Aspie and that renders my opinion on the matter of my own labeling inconsequential ;)
frossie 16y ago
The article refers to the fate of adult autistic children when their parents die. The movie's character relates to a person in similar circumstances - his mother dies and a social worker places him in sheltered then independent accomodation. I apologise if the phrase "mentally challenged" was offensive or inappropriate (the English language never fails to trip me up). As far as I can recall, the movie does not identify the specific developmental disability, but the main character engages in obsessive and ritualistic behaviours and has a number of challenges with fully integrating in society. His friend has different issues. The movie has a very positive message, as had the OP. I encourage you to judge by yourself rather than read the IMDB description. If you feel I have misrepresented it, I am interested in your views, my contact details are in my profile. The real issue, I thought, is what is the appropriate level of state intervention / social support in circumstances where the parents-caregivers pass on.
- zokier 16y ago
  I don't think the English language tripped you here but the overtly PC atmosphere surrounding conversations about differences in people.
  - startup_spouse 16y ago
    I wasn't trying to be PC at all. I'm the least PC person I know: I'm an Aspie, I have little to no filter. I was just seeking clarification :)
- startup_spouse 16y ago
  Thanks for clarifying :) No need to apologize. The phrase "mentally challenged" is used by many people, with different meanings and intentions. Rather than jump on you straight away, I wanted to be sure of what you meant. As someone on the spectrum, I like hearing/reading what other people think about it and their associations, etc. I prefer to think of myself as just having a differently wired brain (i.e. there are some things I excel at that others don't, and vice versa).
Mz 16y ago
Some people with autism are severely mentally retarded. In fact, classic Kanner's syndrome (the original autism) generally also means severe mental retardation. Other people are labeled "high functioning autistic" (also called "Asperger's Syndrome") and can be very intelligent but have some challenges in areas like social skills. Still, most their social difficulties are, essentially, a form of being mentally challenged. Though there are some exceptions. For example, the folks who are also faceblind (fairly common among autistics) face social challenges due to their difficulties recognizing people, which is different from just not understanding the social stuff but has a similar outcome. (Both my kids fit the profile for ASD. No formal diagnosis.)
- startup_spouse 16y ago
  Yes, some cases are severe. But not all. Which is which is why I, personally, don't think the whole lot should be referred to as "mentally challenged". But that's just my opinion. I'm an Aspie and don't consider my social deficiencies to be a form of being mentally challenged. I just see my brain as being wired differently than others. I excel at some things my husband is terrible at. He excels at other things I'm terrible at. It doesn't make sense to arbitrarily assign me with the mentally challenged label in that context. In protest, I reject the label :) If we met, you probably wouldn't even know I was an Aspie. I've been told I don't "look like" someone with autism. I don't know what that means, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with stereotyping and labels. I also say "autistic". I don't care if Jenny McCarthy thinks it sounds like I'm calling myself cancer. Even if she is hot ;) I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but for many of us (Aspies, Auties) it feels like other people label us and we're not allowed to even engage in a discussion about our own label.
  - Mz 16y ago
    The way you asked the question, I assumed you simply didn't know. :-) I have heard Jenny McCarthy referred to on autism email lists. But I am not actually familiar with whatever her position is. Actually, I have no idea who she is either, other than someone controversial in the autism community. To quote Madonna: "I hate labels. They are too limiting." But, as I often add in such discussions, we still need some means to talk about and think about such things, and that generally means labeling them.

nkurz 16y ago

Watch the movie first. The description doesn't really do it justice. Separately, though, if you ignore some of the connotations, it does seem fair to call autism a "mental challenge".

startup_spouse 16y ago
I will definitely have to watch it. Yes, a "mental challenge" just like it might be a mental challenge for someone without my skill set to do something that I excel at naturally, yet I don't call them "mentally challenged". But that's not the issue. There are some people who, when using "mentally challenged", are relying on your implicit understanding of those connotations to communicate something else. It is by pretending those connotations aren't there that we now have stereotypes about autism, etc. It's why people tell me I don't "look like" I have autism. So, in that sense... I don't think it's fair. But I'm an Aspie and that renders my opinion on the matter of my own labeling inconsequential ;)

frossie 16y ago

The article refers to the fate of adult autistic children when their parents die. The movie's character relates to a person in similar circumstances - his mother dies and a social worker places him in sheltered then independent accomodation. I apologise if the phrase "mentally challenged" was offensive or inappropriate (the English language never fails to trip me up). As far as I can recall, the movie does not identify the specific developmental disability, but the main character engages in obsessive and ritualistic behaviours and has a number of challenges with fully integrating in society. His friend has different issues. The movie has a very positive message, as had the OP. I encourage you to judge by yourself rather than read the IMDB description. If you feel I have misrepresented it, I am interested in your views, my contact details are in my profile. The real issue, I thought, is what is the appropriate level of state intervention / social support in circumstances where the parents-caregivers pass on.

zokier 16y ago
I don't think the English language tripped you here but the overtly PC atmosphere surrounding conversations about differences in people.
- startup_spouse 16y ago
  I wasn't trying to be PC at all. I'm the least PC person I know: I'm an Aspie, I have little to no filter. I was just seeking clarification :)
startup_spouse 16y ago
Thanks for clarifying :) No need to apologize. The phrase "mentally challenged" is used by many people, with different meanings and intentions. Rather than jump on you straight away, I wanted to be sure of what you meant. As someone on the spectrum, I like hearing/reading what other people think about it and their associations, etc. I prefer to think of myself as just having a differently wired brain (i.e. there are some things I excel at that others don't, and vice versa).

Mz 16y ago

Some people with autism are severely mentally retarded. In fact, classic Kanner's syndrome (the original autism) generally also means severe mental retardation. Other people are labeled "high functioning autistic" (also called "Asperger's Syndrome") and can be very intelligent but have some challenges in areas like social skills. Still, most their social difficulties are, essentially, a form of being mentally challenged. Though there are some exceptions. For example, the folks who are also faceblind (fairly common among autistics) face social challenges due to their difficulties recognizing people, which is different from just not understanding the social stuff but has a similar outcome. (Both my kids fit the profile for ASD. No formal diagnosis.)

startup_spouse 16y ago
Yes, some cases are severe. But not all. Which is which is why I, personally, don't think the whole lot should be referred to as "mentally challenged". But that's just my opinion. I'm an Aspie and don't consider my social deficiencies to be a form of being mentally challenged. I just see my brain as being wired differently than others. I excel at some things my husband is terrible at. He excels at other things I'm terrible at. It doesn't make sense to arbitrarily assign me with the mentally challenged label in that context. In protest, I reject the label :) If we met, you probably wouldn't even know I was an Aspie. I've been told I don't "look like" someone with autism. I don't know what that means, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with stereotyping and labels. I also say "autistic". I don't care if Jenny McCarthy thinks it sounds like I'm calling myself cancer. Even if she is hot ;) I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but for many of us (Aspies, Auties) it feels like other people label us and we're not allowed to even engage in a discussion about our own label.
- Mz 16y ago
  The way you asked the question, I assumed you simply didn't know. :-) I have heard Jenny McCarthy referred to on autism email lists. But I am not actually familiar with whatever her position is. Actually, I have no idea who she is either, other than someone controversial in the autism community. To quote Madonna: "I hate labels. They are too limiting." But, as I often add in such discussions, we still need some means to talk about and think about such things, and that generally means labeling them.