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> “Traditional money transfers are relatively costly due to currency exchange fees, and can take up to a few days,” Albrecht told Reuters TV in his office in Be

by foepys 8y ago

> “Traditional money transfers are relatively costly due to currency exchange fees, and can take up to a few days,” Albrecht told Reuters TV in his office in Berlin’s fashionable neighborhood Prenzlauer Berg. “With Bitbond, payments work independently of where customers are. Via internet it is very, very quick and the fees are low.” I don't see this argument as valid. When was the last time the currency of a solvent country fell more than 10% within a day? With Bitcoin this happened just yesterday. This means you lost 10% of your money during fiat -> Bitcoin -> fiat if you kept the Bitcoin for longer than 12 hours. Edit: bitbond.com has a link to a "eBay SEO" optimizer in their website footer. I don't know how much this says about their credibility.

wellboy 8y ago
This argument isn't really valid, because Bitcoin also goes up by 10% within a day. That's why this bank can calculate this factor in and have a small off-set budget for daily fluctuations. Of course, there are also weekly 30% drops, but there are also weekly 30% hikes. Across a span of a year, all of this volatility cancels each other out.
- japhyr 8y ago
  Aren't they better off overall as long as the loss due to volatility during a transfer, plus the transaction fee, is less than the traditional transfer fee?
- disconnected 8y ago
  > Across a span of a year, all of this volatility cancels each other out. Bitcoin price was around $19k in December 2017. The price tumbled all the way down to around 7k in February, came back up to 11k, and now it is hovering at around 8k (numbers massively rounded, but you get the picture). If we consider this span alone (~6 months), Bitcoin's value has fluctuated by more than 50%. But if we consider a full year, things are even crazier since bitcoin was worth around 1k then. Source: https://www.coindesk.com/price/ https://www.coindesk.com/price/ The above is great if you are selling bitcoin. It is not so great if you are chained to any sort of contract (loans, phone contracts, car payments, etc). If the contract stipulates "X bitcoin per month", your loan/rent/whatever went up 8x in one year. If you are chained to that contract for several years (phone contracts in my country are typically for 2 years), you are massively fucked.
paulmd 8y ago
> "Traditional money transfers are relatively costly due to currency exchange fees, and can take up to a few days," Albrecht told Reuters TV Giro transfers clear within minutes. This is the day-to-day mechanism that EU citizens use to pay their bills. This smacks of a US-centric analyst who does not understand the Euro market at even the most basic level. The reality is the US is decades behind the state-of-the-art in banking and pretty much none of the issues that are relevant to US citizens are relevant anywhere else in the world. Sending money to someone else's bank account within minutes is pretty much a solved problem, for anyone who isn't living in a 70s-era cheque-based world like the US banking system. Sending some bits between highly trusted parties within a formal banking system is not some unsolved problem that only Bitcoin can tackle.
- badestrand 8y ago
  > Giro transfers clear within minutes. This is the day-to-day mechanism that EU citizens use to pay their bills. Not true at all. This is just starting to get implemented in the EU. Until now transfers took usually a full banking day, thus nothing happened on the weekend and holidays. Last year over easter I had a transfer between two German banks take 7 days because of that. And international transfers are still a nightmare.
  - is_true 8y ago
    Wow. In Argentina a transfer usually takes less than a minute. Sometimes my girlfriend texts me from the bank when she needs money, I make a transfer and in 2 minutes she has the cash in her hand.
  - y4mi 8y ago
    It depends entirely on your Banks peering agreement. It generally clears within minutes if you're transferring between participating Banks. If not, the maximum amount of time they're permitted to take is exactly one business day after they've accepted your order. This acceptance is not necessarily the time you've entered the details on their website. It is often, but there are some outliers that only accept them at a specific time each day. (But still let you schedule them at all times.)
cesarb 8y ago
> When was the last time the currency of a solvent country fell more than 10% within a day? 15 January 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_franc#End_of_capping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_franc#End_of_capping the EUR and USD fell more than 20% against the CHF, in a single day.
- paulgb 8y ago
  They fell against one currency (CHF), they didn't fall 10% in a general sense (e.g. against a basket of goods or currencies.) If I sell muffins for USD$1 and I raise my price to USD$2, it would be a real stretch to say the USD fell by 50%.
mihaifm 8y ago
They mention that they are immediately exchanged into their national currency. They would be exposed to the price fluctuation for half an hour maximum. Block confirmation is around 10 minutes, and you need to wait 2-3 blocks to be certain. Of course a lot of things can happend to the price in half an hour, but that's another story.
- madeofpalk 8y ago
  > Of course a lot of things can happend to the price in half an hour, but that's another story. Isn't that exactly the story?
def_true_false 8y ago
GBP on June 23rd, 2016
- Ar-Curunir 8y ago
  Doesn't it just prove the parent's point? When the pound fell by 10%, everyone remembers the specific date; Bitcoin fluctuates every few days by that much, and no one cares. I certainly my wouldn't use Bitcoin for anything important.
vasilipupkin 8y ago
swiss frank appreciated against euro 30% in a day a few years ago https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/15/swiss-franc-sours-stocks-tank-as-euro-peg-scrapped.html https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/15/swiss-franc-sours-stocks-tan...

by foepys 8y ago

wellboy 8y ago

This argument isn't really valid, because Bitcoin also goes up by 10% within a day. That's why this bank can calculate this factor in and have a small off-set budget for daily fluctuations. Of course, there are also weekly 30% drops, but there are also weekly 30% hikes. Across a span of a year, all of this volatility cancels each other out.

japhyr 8y ago
Aren't they better off overall as long as the loss due to volatility during a transfer, plus the transaction fee, is less than the traditional transfer fee?
disconnected 8y ago
> Across a span of a year, all of this volatility cancels each other out. Bitcoin price was around $19k in December 2017. The price tumbled all the way down to around 7k in February, came back up to 11k, and now it is hovering at around 8k (numbers massively rounded, but you get the picture). If we consider this span alone (~6 months), Bitcoin's value has fluctuated by more than 50%. But if we consider a full year, things are even crazier since bitcoin was worth around 1k then. Source: https://www.coindesk.com/price/ https://www.coindesk.com/price/ The above is great if you are selling bitcoin. It is not so great if you are chained to any sort of contract (loans, phone contracts, car payments, etc). If the contract stipulates "X bitcoin per month", your loan/rent/whatever went up 8x in one year. If you are chained to that contract for several years (phone contracts in my country are typically for 2 years), you are massively fucked.

paulmd 8y ago

> "Traditional money transfers are relatively costly due to currency exchange fees, and can take up to a few days," Albrecht told Reuters TV Giro transfers clear within minutes. This is the day-to-day mechanism that EU citizens use to pay their bills. This smacks of a US-centric analyst who does not understand the Euro market at even the most basic level. The reality is the US is decades behind the state-of-the-art in banking and pretty much none of the issues that are relevant to US citizens are relevant anywhere else in the world. Sending money to someone else's bank account within minutes is pretty much a solved problem, for anyone who isn't living in a 70s-era cheque-based world like the US banking system. Sending some bits between highly trusted parties within a formal banking system is not some unsolved problem that only Bitcoin can tackle.

badestrand 8y ago
> Giro transfers clear within minutes. This is the day-to-day mechanism that EU citizens use to pay their bills. Not true at all. This is just starting to get implemented in the EU. Until now transfers took usually a full banking day, thus nothing happened on the weekend and holidays. Last year over easter I had a transfer between two German banks take 7 days because of that. And international transfers are still a nightmare.
- is_true 8y ago
  Wow. In Argentina a transfer usually takes less than a minute. Sometimes my girlfriend texts me from the bank when she needs money, I make a transfer and in 2 minutes she has the cash in her hand.
- y4mi 8y ago
  It depends entirely on your Banks peering agreement. It generally clears within minutes if you're transferring between participating Banks. If not, the maximum amount of time they're permitted to take is exactly one business day after they've accepted your order. This acceptance is not necessarily the time you've entered the details on their website. It is often, but there are some outliers that only accept them at a specific time each day. (But still let you schedule them at all times.)

cesarb 8y ago

> When was the last time the currency of a solvent country fell more than 10% within a day? 15 January 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_franc#End_of_capping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_franc#End_of_capping the EUR and USD fell more than 20% against the CHF, in a single day.

paulgb 8y ago
They fell against one currency (CHF), they didn't fall 10% in a general sense (e.g. against a basket of goods or currencies.) If I sell muffins for USD$1 and I raise my price to USD$2, it would be a real stretch to say the USD fell by 50%.

mihaifm 8y ago

They mention that they are immediately exchanged into their national currency. They would be exposed to the price fluctuation for half an hour maximum. Block confirmation is around 10 minutes, and you need to wait 2-3 blocks to be certain. Of course a lot of things can happend to the price in half an hour, but that's another story.

madeofpalk 8y ago
> Of course a lot of things can happend to the price in half an hour, but that's another story. Isn't that exactly the story?

def_true_false 8y ago

GBP on June 23rd, 2016

Ar-Curunir 8y ago
Doesn't it just prove the parent's point? When the pound fell by 10%, everyone remembers the specific date; Bitcoin fluctuates every few days by that much, and no one cares. I certainly my wouldn't use Bitcoin for anything important.

vasilipupkin 8y ago

swiss frank appreciated against euro 30% in a day a few years ago https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/15/swiss-franc-sours-stocks-tank-as-euro-peg-scrapped.html https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/15/swiss-franc-sours-stocks-tan...