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Bitcoin's lightning network is currently maturing (it allows instant free transfer of Bitcoins off-chain). That should work perfectly for banks, given that unli

Bitcoin's lightning network is currently maturing (it allows instant free transfer of Bitcoins off-chain). That should work perfectly for banks, given that unlike regular customers, banks don't transfer money only in one direction, so the lightning channels should stay balanced for much longer.

viraptor 8y ago
> instant free transfer Who offers free transfers permanently?
- wellboy 8y ago
  Iota, Skycoin, Nano. The first 2 also offer linear/near infinite scalability, that is, the more nodes in the network, the more TPS can be handled by the network. That's why one of the first 2 will probably replace Bitcoin until the end of 2018.
  - viraptor 8y ago
    I asked in context of the original post about free Bitcoin transfers on LN. The options you mentioned may be free, but are not Bitcoin LN.
  - psergeant 8y ago
    > That's why one of the first 2 will probably replace Bitcoin until the end of 2018. It may be time to evaluate if you, yourself, are the mark.
  - simias 8y ago
    Iota isn't much more than a whitepaper and a centralised PoC. Supposedly they're supposed to roll out the real thing eventually but given their track record and how they've responded to criticism in the past I'm pretty skeptical. I'm also very skeptical of Skycoin and their "web-of-trust" which is even more experimental than "proof of stake" which is itself rather unproven at this point. Reading through the whitepaper I also feel like Skycoin has an issue that's shared with many newer cryptocurrencies trying to break through (including IOTA) which is to attempt to do way too much stuff at once. It's just just "web-of-trust", it's also "skywire meshnet", "fiber application ecosystem", "Skyminers custom-built hardware VPN" etc... In an effort to differentiate themselves they just pile the features on top of each other instead of focusing on doing one thing right. At least they don't use ternary I suppose. It seems like a very wild bet to me (even by cryptocurrency standards) than either of them are going to manage to replace Bitcoin by the end of the year. After all, what drives adoption at this point is mainly speculation, not the features otherwise Bitcoin would've been replaced long ago.
    - wellboy 8y ago
      Well all new coins are proof of concept before they gain adoption, so this isn't really an argument why a technology is bad. Skycoin's consensus algorithm is among the few that are peer-reviewed next to Cardano, so i think that's as much credibility as you can get as a new coin. Iota's coordinator is expected to be decentralised and then removed next year already. In order to gain control of the network, you would need to gain 34% of the hash power, omnipresence in the network and omnipotence. I'm not sure what the cost of this is, but there is currently no more secure decentralized network design that I know of. Keep in mind that 45% of Bitcoin's hash power is currently controlled by one company, Bitmain, and they are investors in the 3rd biggest mining pool, totalling 75% hashing power of the entire Bitcoin blockchain.
      - madeofpalk 8y ago
        I mean, even bitcoin is still just a proof of concept. A wider-adopted proof of concept.
- RedNifre 8y ago
  I meant that when banks open direct lightning channels between each other they can transfer bitcoins without any fees (because there are no intermediate nodes to pay).
psergeant 8y ago
> That should work perfectly for banks Is the price of interbank transfers / clearing really a big deal for banks?
spookthesunset 8y ago
LN, aside from being complete vaporware, is most certainly not free. Or, it’s as free as bitcoin was promised to be “free”, in that it isn’t free at all. Not to mention that, should it ever prove to work at any reasonable scale, LN is basically adding a layer on top of Bitcoin that gives up almost all of the things that were supposed to be core values.
- def_true_false 8y ago
  Nevermind LN, regular tx fees are virtually zero at the moment. https://transactionfee.info/charts/feerate/median https://transactionfee.info/charts/feerate/median
- Catfishfinger 8y ago
  LN is already working on the mainnet network, I've used it several times and so far it's working well. From here, it just has to reach scale, maturity and adaption.

viraptor 8y ago

> instant free transfer Who offers free transfers permanently?

wellboy 8y ago
Iota, Skycoin, Nano. The first 2 also offer linear/near infinite scalability, that is, the more nodes in the network, the more TPS can be handled by the network. That's why one of the first 2 will probably replace Bitcoin until the end of 2018.
- viraptor 8y ago
  I asked in context of the original post about free Bitcoin transfers on LN. The options you mentioned may be free, but are not Bitcoin LN.
- psergeant 8y ago
  > That's why one of the first 2 will probably replace Bitcoin until the end of 2018. It may be time to evaluate if you, yourself, are the mark.
- simias 8y ago
  Iota isn't much more than a whitepaper and a centralised PoC. Supposedly they're supposed to roll out the real thing eventually but given their track record and how they've responded to criticism in the past I'm pretty skeptical. I'm also very skeptical of Skycoin and their "web-of-trust" which is even more experimental than "proof of stake" which is itself rather unproven at this point. Reading through the whitepaper I also feel like Skycoin has an issue that's shared with many newer cryptocurrencies trying to break through (including IOTA) which is to attempt to do way too much stuff at once. It's just just "web-of-trust", it's also "skywire meshnet", "fiber application ecosystem", "Skyminers custom-built hardware VPN" etc... In an effort to differentiate themselves they just pile the features on top of each other instead of focusing on doing one thing right. At least they don't use ternary I suppose. It seems like a very wild bet to me (even by cryptocurrency standards) than either of them are going to manage to replace Bitcoin by the end of the year. After all, what drives adoption at this point is mainly speculation, not the features otherwise Bitcoin would've been replaced long ago.
  - wellboy 8y ago
    Well all new coins are proof of concept before they gain adoption, so this isn't really an argument why a technology is bad. Skycoin's consensus algorithm is among the few that are peer-reviewed next to Cardano, so i think that's as much credibility as you can get as a new coin. Iota's coordinator is expected to be decentralised and then removed next year already. In order to gain control of the network, you would need to gain 34% of the hash power, omnipresence in the network and omnipotence. I'm not sure what the cost of this is, but there is currently no more secure decentralized network design that I know of. Keep in mind that 45% of Bitcoin's hash power is currently controlled by one company, Bitmain, and they are investors in the 3rd biggest mining pool, totalling 75% hashing power of the entire Bitcoin blockchain.
    - madeofpalk 8y ago
      I mean, even bitcoin is still just a proof of concept. A wider-adopted proof of concept.
RedNifre 8y ago
I meant that when banks open direct lightning channels between each other they can transfer bitcoins without any fees (because there are no intermediate nodes to pay).

psergeant 8y ago

> That should work perfectly for banks Is the price of interbank transfers / clearing really a big deal for banks?

spookthesunset 8y ago

LN, aside from being complete vaporware, is most certainly not free. Or, it’s as free as bitcoin was promised to be “free”, in that it isn’t free at all. Not to mention that, should it ever prove to work at any reasonable scale, LN is basically adding a layer on top of Bitcoin that gives up almost all of the things that were supposed to be core values.

def_true_false 8y ago
Nevermind LN, regular tx fees are virtually zero at the moment. https://transactionfee.info/charts/feerate/median https://transactionfee.info/charts/feerate/median
Catfishfinger 8y ago
LN is already working on the mainnet network, I've used it several times and so far it's working well. From here, it just has to reach scale, maturity and adaption.