4 ms·

It's a thankless job to try to convince anyone that what Picasso did was appropriation. Notoriously, he himself said (translated) "African art? Never heard of i

by theoh 8y ago

It's a thankless job to try to convince anyone that what Picasso did was appropriation. Notoriously, he himself said (translated) "African art? Never heard of it." Cultural appropriation hurts when it's done by someone in a position of relative power to amplify their own voice, rather than allow the foreign culture in question to be heard. This idea is not a politically radical form of thought policing, it's just good democratic practice and respect.

mcphage 8y ago
> Cultural appropriation hurts when it's done by someone in a position of relative power to amplify their own voice, rather than allow the foreign culture in question to be heard. Well, given how many people became familiar with South African music—and Ladysmith Black Mambazo in particular—through Paul Simon's music, that seems to be a pretty good description of what he did.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  Another example would be Led Zeppelin being inspired by blues artists on another continent. That fits the definition of "cultural appropriation", but do you seriously want to denounce Zep for that? Music is so rich and diverse and beautiful and ever-changing because of copying/blending styles from other cultures and genres. (Those blues artists would be long forgotten if not for Zep, the Stones, Eric Clapton, and others copying/blending it.)
  - theoh 8y ago
    These are fine counterexamples. The existence of instances of borrowing that nobody objects to doesn't mean that the problem of cultural appropriation doesn't exist. It's a question of nuance, on a case-by-case basis. It's not about something "fitting the definition" of cultural appropriation, it's about whether someone is hurt by it e.g. by having their voice or agency denied. It's a subjective thing. Showing me a piece of software with no bugs doesn't disprove the existence of other, buggy, software...
    - mcphage 8y ago
      > It's a question of nuance, on a case-by-case basis. I agree, although I don't think "nuance" or "case-by-case basis" have ever been used in accusations of appropriation.
      - theoh 8y ago
        Well, a Google search finds a number of articles/posts on the topic which make the observation that more nuance is needed in the conversation. So you are probably right that it is typically lacking, though the word nuance isn't totally absent from the discussion.

by theoh 8y ago

mcphage 8y ago

> Cultural appropriation hurts when it's done by someone in a position of relative power to amplify their own voice, rather than allow the foreign culture in question to be heard. Well, given how many people became familiar with South African music—and Ladysmith Black Mambazo in particular—through Paul Simon's music, that seems to be a pretty good description of what he did.

skookumchuck 8y ago
Another example would be Led Zeppelin being inspired by blues artists on another continent. That fits the definition of "cultural appropriation", but do you seriously want to denounce Zep for that? Music is so rich and diverse and beautiful and ever-changing because of copying/blending styles from other cultures and genres. (Those blues artists would be long forgotten if not for Zep, the Stones, Eric Clapton, and others copying/blending it.)
- theoh 8y ago
  These are fine counterexamples. The existence of instances of borrowing that nobody objects to doesn't mean that the problem of cultural appropriation doesn't exist. It's a question of nuance, on a case-by-case basis. It's not about something "fitting the definition" of cultural appropriation, it's about whether someone is hurt by it e.g. by having their voice or agency denied. It's a subjective thing. Showing me a piece of software with no bugs doesn't disprove the existence of other, buggy, software...
  - mcphage 8y ago
    > It's a question of nuance, on a case-by-case basis. I agree, although I don't think "nuance" or "case-by-case basis" have ever been used in accusations of appropriation.
    - theoh 8y ago
      Well, a Google search finds a number of articles/posts on the topic which make the observation that more nuance is needed in the conversation. So you are probably right that it is typically lacking, though the word nuance isn't totally absent from the discussion.