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> "The person who stole it clearly needed it more than me." Counterpoints that will be unpopular, but need to be said anyways: 1. "Needing" is no excuse for s

> "The person who stole it clearly needed it more than me." Counterpoints that will be unpopular, but need to be said anyways: 1. "Needing" is no excuse for stealing, and that demeans all the people who BUST THEIR ASS to get out of poverty. If the thief is not working 12 hours per day and living on bare necessities, they have no excuse, and being even mildly sympathetic to their plight is bad for everyone, most especially poor people. NEVER pardon stealing, ESPECIALLY from another individual. Condoning ANY stealing is terrible - thieves are far more likely to steal near them, which will be from other needy people, thus making their poverty worse. Never condone a criminal's behavior, especially and above all street crime. > Find out why he needs it. I doubt it's so he can watch YouTube videos, based on his email. You can buy a cheap desktop (or even laptop) for a few hundred dollars. Offer to trade a crappy computer for yours. 2. This could very well be another scam or attempt to rob MORE (the person has already demonstrated that they have no integrity and will steal from people), and you're encouraging the original poster to walk into the lion's den and potentially risk getting robbed or ripped off even more. This is crazy, reckless, and dangerous for the OP. > After all, giving him a computer could change his life. It's a THIEF, dude. You can get a used computer for a few hundred dollars, that's like a week worth of saving at the most low quality minimum wage job. Work 80 hours for a couple weeks and use the money to buy a computer. Some of us do stuff like that to get out of povery. God, this smug "crime is okay because they need it" crap among upper middle class people is awful, it makes me sick to my stomach. NO, committing street crime is NOT okay, EVER. There's ALWAYS another way.

gkoberger 16y ago
I 100% certainly see your point. I don't mean to condone it, I'm just looking for a way for him to get his computer back. By understanding the persons motives, he can figure out the best way to do it. (In this case, it doesn't seem to be about money. $100 for the laptop and the name of the person who stole it, like other comments suggested, isn't going to work.) If there was a way for him to just get it back and get justice, I'd say go for it. I just feel this is a more realistic approach. And if he gets it back this way, and happens to help someone out along the way? Good. This person did pay for the computer; he just paid the wrong person. And the fact that he was willing to buy a hard drive probably means there's more to it than money. There's an interesting article on the top of HN right now called "The Most Powerful Word In The Human Vocabulary: Perspective" (http://blog.sokanu.com/the-most-powerful-word-in-the-human-vocabular http://blog.sokanu.com/the-most-powerful-word-in-the-human-v...). The point I was trying to make basically boils down to that. Or maybe I've just seen too many sappy movies about the kid from the other side of the tracks getting a second chance. [Edit: I completely reworked this post, after thinking about it a bit more]
dawsdesign 16y ago
I would +2 if I could.
- lionhearted 16y ago
  Thank you, but that's unnecessary. Also, some people are downvoting it, which is predictable but makes me sad. I understand we have moral feelings, but condoning theft and crime is actually bad for honest needy people. The vast majority of people will never commit crime, and when needy people do commit crimes, it's frequently against others who are also in need. I get scared for a society that condones or excuses street crime - no matter how bad things are, we all have individual responsibility not to do wrong against fellow humans.
  - rkalla 16y ago
    I didn't understand the OP to be condoning theft and crime; he was approaching the situation from a place of compassion and understanding: "Alright, this guy stole it BUT he had enough human decency to email me... so he can't be a total dirtbag. Let me try and understand why and see if we can resolve this a different way". I think that requires a lot more work and thought than slapping a "criminal" label on the guy and giving him the same treatment as a serial car-jacker, drug dealer, etc. because they all share that same "criminal" tag. That being said... yea of course he would need to keep his wits about him and use some moxxy when it comes to spotting some additional theft/scam like "Ok PayPal me for the hard drive so I can make the backup" -- I'm not encouraging the guy to be half retarded -- but stopping the conversation after the first sentence and filling it full of pre-conceptions because the guy with the laptop is a "criminal"... I can't get on board with that. At least talk to him and give him a chance to prove he's a dirt bag shithead first :) In this particular case, I think a non-typical response would yield better results than a black-or-white/militaristic response of trying to get the cops to do something, but that's just my 2 cents.
tomjen3 16y ago
I am not sure why you think your points would be unpopular - you are exactly right.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  They would be unpopular on Reddit, certainly. I know this from experience...
  - points 16y ago
    HN isn't Reddit..... yet. When the front page is full of pro-drugs/pro-gay marriage/liberal propaganda/etc then we'll be there.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      I think you can check the 'pro drugs' item off that list.
nevinera 16y ago
>You can get a used computer for a few hundred dollars, that's like a week worth of saving at the most low quality minimum wage job. While I mostly agree with you, this point is flat-out absurd. I can tell that you haven't ever supported yourself off a 30 hour minimum wage job before. Supporting a kid on one, and still saving hundreds of dollars a week? Not unless your rent is free.

gkoberger 16y ago

I 100% certainly see your point. I don't mean to condone it, I'm just looking for a way for him to get his computer back. By understanding the persons motives, he can figure out the best way to do it. (In this case, it doesn't seem to be about money. $100 for the laptop and the name of the person who stole it, like other comments suggested, isn't going to work.) If there was a way for him to just get it back and get justice, I'd say go for it. I just feel this is a more realistic approach. And if he gets it back this way, and happens to help someone out along the way? Good. This person did pay for the computer; he just paid the wrong person. And the fact that he was willing to buy a hard drive probably means there's more to it than money. There's an interesting article on the top of HN right now called "The Most Powerful Word In The Human Vocabulary: Perspective" (http://blog.sokanu.com/the-most-powerful-word-in-the-human-vocabular http://blog.sokanu.com/the-most-powerful-word-in-the-human-v...). The point I was trying to make basically boils down to that. Or maybe I've just seen too many sappy movies about the kid from the other side of the tracks getting a second chance. [Edit: I completely reworked this post, after thinking about it a bit more]

dawsdesign 16y ago

I would +2 if I could.

lionhearted 16y ago
Thank you, but that's unnecessary. Also, some people are downvoting it, which is predictable but makes me sad. I understand we have moral feelings, but condoning theft and crime is actually bad for honest needy people. The vast majority of people will never commit crime, and when needy people do commit crimes, it's frequently against others who are also in need. I get scared for a society that condones or excuses street crime - no matter how bad things are, we all have individual responsibility not to do wrong against fellow humans.
- rkalla 16y ago
  I didn't understand the OP to be condoning theft and crime; he was approaching the situation from a place of compassion and understanding: "Alright, this guy stole it BUT he had enough human decency to email me... so he can't be a total dirtbag. Let me try and understand why and see if we can resolve this a different way". I think that requires a lot more work and thought than slapping a "criminal" label on the guy and giving him the same treatment as a serial car-jacker, drug dealer, etc. because they all share that same "criminal" tag. That being said... yea of course he would need to keep his wits about him and use some moxxy when it comes to spotting some additional theft/scam like "Ok PayPal me for the hard drive so I can make the backup" -- I'm not encouraging the guy to be half retarded -- but stopping the conversation after the first sentence and filling it full of pre-conceptions because the guy with the laptop is a "criminal"... I can't get on board with that. At least talk to him and give him a chance to prove he's a dirt bag shithead first :) In this particular case, I think a non-typical response would yield better results than a black-or-white/militaristic response of trying to get the cops to do something, but that's just my 2 cents.

tomjen3 16y ago

I am not sure why you think your points would be unpopular - you are exactly right.

CamperBob 16y ago
They would be unpopular on Reddit, certainly. I know this from experience...
- points 16y ago
  HN isn't Reddit..... yet. When the front page is full of pro-drugs/pro-gay marriage/liberal propaganda/etc then we'll be there.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I think you can check the 'pro drugs' item off that list.

nevinera 16y ago

>You can get a used computer for a few hundred dollars, that's like a week worth of saving at the most low quality minimum wage job. While I mostly agree with you, this point is flat-out absurd. I can tell that you haven't ever supported yourself off a 30 hour minimum wage job before. Supporting a kid on one, and still saving hundreds of dollars a week? Not unless your rent is free.