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The best Apple keyboard is just "OK". Have a 2015 MBP, and it's OK. Whether Macbook Pro or the extended iMac keyboard they seem designed to be nice to look at

The best Apple keyboard is just "OK". Have a 2015 MBP, and it's OK. Whether Macbook Pro or the extended iMac keyboard they seem designed to be nice to look at with no consideration of what they are like to actually type on. I bought an external mechanical. "OK" is enough for when travelling or browsing.

mwfunk 8y ago
If your criteria for judging laptop keyboards is, "does this feel like an external mechanical keyboard", then you're always going to be disappointed. I like mechanical keyboards too, but most people don't, so they're generally not appropriate for non-niche laptops. I don't blame computer companies for not making them. Although: if you feel strongly about that kind of typing experience, and don't mind running Windows or Linux, there do exist PC laptops with mechanical keyboards. IMO the keyboard and trackpad on the last last-gen MBP were as good or better than anything on the market. This is what makes the new ones even more of a heartbreaker to me. I don't want to buy a new computer and feel like it's a step down from what I was using before, especially such a precipitous drop for what was literally my favorite aspect of the old hardware. It also feels like a bad precedent, a move in a direction that I personally don't want any further moves to be made in. I've been using MBPs for so long and have generally been so happy with them. It sucks that I feel like something I've trusted for so long may be moving away from me, like being in what you thought was a great relationship, then getting dumped out of the blue.
- oldcynic 8y ago
  > If your criteria for judging laptop keyboards is, "does this feel like an external mechanical keyboard" Hardly, but then I don't say or even imply that by mentioning I bought an external mechanical. I bought it during my brief spell with the 2016 where I was especially disappointed by the keyboard. I still bought Apple even though the keyboard was a mark against. It fits with work and I prefer MacOS/*nix to Windows. I've never been disappointed by Thinkpad keyboards, so it appears someone is able to make a laptop keyboard, the brand has received praise for the keyboard for decades. They (even the recently redesigned one that I see as a step backwards, mainly from poorer layout) are an order of magnitude above anything Apple has used in years. I've always been a bit surprised since my first Macbook years ago that they haven't been trying to surpass Thinkpad for "keyboard experience". To me it seems that Apple should care highly about keyboards as they clearly care enough to be opinionated about many aspects of their products. They don't seem the least bit interested in anything but thinness in keyboards even on the iMac. The keyboard on my 2015 is OK, so is the keyboard on the iMac. Neither is good in my limited personal opinion, but OK enough for daily use. That the new one felt worse, was surprisingly loud, and turned out to be ridiculously fragile in a normal environment is quite some achievement. Keyboards always get pretty diverse opinions so I doubt we'll agree. Touchpads are much easier - Apple have always done consistently better than anyone until the '16 which became newly prone to false activations.
wyclif 8y ago
The Apple butterfly keyboard, sadly, is designed for people who don't type and don't do most of their work via key entry. It's frustrating to use it for software engineering, especially if you use vim or emacs to edit code. And because of other key optimizations I'm used to, it's even worse. For instance, I have the Vimium plugin installed and I use the home row keys to navigate web pages. It's more efficient but clearly I'm asking for trouble by working this way, given the failure rate of the new keyboard. Apple needs to go back to the drawing board and create an ergonomic keyboard with lots of focus group feedback from software engineers, writers, and content creators, and stop treating the MBP as if it's a consumption device (that's what the iPad is for).

mwfunk 8y ago

If your criteria for judging laptop keyboards is, "does this feel like an external mechanical keyboard", then you're always going to be disappointed. I like mechanical keyboards too, but most people don't, so they're generally not appropriate for non-niche laptops. I don't blame computer companies for not making them. Although: if you feel strongly about that kind of typing experience, and don't mind running Windows or Linux, there do exist PC laptops with mechanical keyboards. IMO the keyboard and trackpad on the last last-gen MBP were as good or better than anything on the market. This is what makes the new ones even more of a heartbreaker to me. I don't want to buy a new computer and feel like it's a step down from what I was using before, especially such a precipitous drop for what was literally my favorite aspect of the old hardware. It also feels like a bad precedent, a move in a direction that I personally don't want any further moves to be made in. I've been using MBPs for so long and have generally been so happy with them. It sucks that I feel like something I've trusted for so long may be moving away from me, like being in what you thought was a great relationship, then getting dumped out of the blue.

oldcynic 8y ago
> If your criteria for judging laptop keyboards is, "does this feel like an external mechanical keyboard" Hardly, but then I don't say or even imply that by mentioning I bought an external mechanical. I bought it during my brief spell with the 2016 where I was especially disappointed by the keyboard. I still bought Apple even though the keyboard was a mark against. It fits with work and I prefer MacOS/*nix to Windows. I've never been disappointed by Thinkpad keyboards, so it appears someone is able to make a laptop keyboard, the brand has received praise for the keyboard for decades. They (even the recently redesigned one that I see as a step backwards, mainly from poorer layout) are an order of magnitude above anything Apple has used in years. I've always been a bit surprised since my first Macbook years ago that they haven't been trying to surpass Thinkpad for "keyboard experience". To me it seems that Apple should care highly about keyboards as they clearly care enough to be opinionated about many aspects of their products. They don't seem the least bit interested in anything but thinness in keyboards even on the iMac. The keyboard on my 2015 is OK, so is the keyboard on the iMac. Neither is good in my limited personal opinion, but OK enough for daily use. That the new one felt worse, was surprisingly loud, and turned out to be ridiculously fragile in a normal environment is quite some achievement. Keyboards always get pretty diverse opinions so I doubt we'll agree. Touchpads are much easier - Apple have always done consistently better than anyone until the '16 which became newly prone to false activations.

wyclif 8y ago

The Apple butterfly keyboard, sadly, is designed for people who don't type and don't do most of their work via key entry. It's frustrating to use it for software engineering, especially if you use vim or emacs to edit code. And because of other key optimizations I'm used to, it's even worse. For instance, I have the Vimium plugin installed and I use the home row keys to navigate web pages. It's more efficient but clearly I'm asking for trouble by working this way, given the failure rate of the new keyboard. Apple needs to go back to the drawing board and create an ergonomic keyboard with lots of focus group feedback from software engineers, writers, and content creators, and stop treating the MBP as if it's a consumption device (that's what the iPad is for).