3 ms·

I don’t think Darwinism has anything to do with racism, except tangentially. Modern racism and the idea of some races being superior was the direct result of co

by pm90 9y ago

I don’t think Darwinism has anything to do with racism, except tangentially. Modern racism and the idea of some races being superior was the direct result of colonialism, and evolution was perhaps only one of the tools used to justify white supremacy ( another was Christianity). It is fascinating to see the dynamism of race in India. The early British (pre 1800s) didn’t seem to hold racist views of the natives, in fact many of them had Indian wives and children, and adopted Indian clothes and culture. Some even converted to Islam, many were fluent in Persian, the language of elites at the time. But that begins to change markedly when British supremacy is assured in secured in the 1800s after many successful wars.

UnpossibleJim 9y ago
I mean, this isn't exactly a new idea. If you go back to the Roman occupation of the British isles and the slaughter of it's peoples and the enslavement of the Judaic peoples and the Christian cults, based on Judaism. Hitler named his movement the third reich, meaning empire, modeling it after the Roman empire because he was a delusional nutbag but, again, unoriginal. But subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention. The Romani have been singled out, more recently, I guess, if you want (they used to be more commonly known as Gypsies, but this is an Eastern European slur, so I've been told). The whole "colonialism is to blame" is a new argument, to me, though. I do hear a lot more of these, "the past was a utopia, and modernity has screwed things up" statements of late and I can't figure out how..... maybe that wasn't your intention and I totally misread your statement. I apologize if that's the case.
- bhaak 9y ago
  You're mixing different things. "Subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention". No, it isn't. But at least in the case of the Romans, there was no racism component in it (I'm not knowledgeable enough to say if other cases were racism related and therefore if it was or wasn't a 'white person invention'). The Romans were quite liberal, once you have let yourself be conquered by them. As long as you recognized the state and paid your taxes, you were free to do what you wanted. There are very few recorded persecutions of religion cults in non-christian Roman times because of this. Christians, Jews, druids and the followers of Bacchus, they all were considered a threat to the state and that's the reason they were persecuted, not because of some form of racism.
  - UnpossibleJim 9y ago
    Fine, but Romans aside, no one mentions Japanese, Chinese or Nepalese history. Central African history is whisked away (you ask them if they're the same race, and see what answer you get). The whole conversation is clouded is a horribly eurocentric manner, and put towards a narrative.
    - pm90 9y ago
      I sincerely don't believe you have researched your history well enough; and I'm trying to sound as nice as possible when pointing out this fact. You don't just throw in entire civilizations as having racist views (at least in the terms that we think of today, according to skin color). AFAIK the Chinese did consider anyone living outside Mainland China as "barbarians" but to a great extent, it was true (Turkic, Mongols living on the border etc.). They considered Ancient Indians in high regard (specifically I believe due to the Buddha being born in India) and the many Chinese travelers through India have left a well documented account of their travels which are one of the most important sources for historic event during this time. Japan has mostly been a self-contained country, occasionally fighting with Chinese until the Meiji Restoration and the Rise of the Japanese Armed Forces, which was late 19th century. One could credibly argue the racist views they picked up were as a direct result of aping the Western Powers that held similar views during this time period. I'm not familiar enough with Nepalese history to even know what you are talking about. Modern Racism is certainly a European invention, specifically brought about by European colonial interests.
      - UnpossibleJim 9y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China

by pm90 9y ago

UnpossibleJim 9y ago

I mean, this isn't exactly a new idea. If you go back to the Roman occupation of the British isles and the slaughter of it's peoples and the enslavement of the Judaic peoples and the Christian cults, based on Judaism. Hitler named his movement the third reich, meaning empire, modeling it after the Roman empire because he was a delusional nutbag but, again, unoriginal. But subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention. The Romani have been singled out, more recently, I guess, if you want (they used to be more commonly known as Gypsies, but this is an Eastern European slur, so I've been told). The whole "colonialism is to blame" is a new argument, to me, though. I do hear a lot more of these, "the past was a utopia, and modernity has screwed things up" statements of late and I can't figure out how..... maybe that wasn't your intention and I totally misread your statement. I apologize if that's the case.

bhaak 9y ago
You're mixing different things. "Subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention". No, it isn't. But at least in the case of the Romans, there was no racism component in it (I'm not knowledgeable enough to say if other cases were racism related and therefore if it was or wasn't a 'white person invention'). The Romans were quite liberal, once you have let yourself be conquered by them. As long as you recognized the state and paid your taxes, you were free to do what you wanted. There are very few recorded persecutions of religion cults in non-christian Roman times because of this. Christians, Jews, druids and the followers of Bacchus, they all were considered a threat to the state and that's the reason they were persecuted, not because of some form of racism.
- UnpossibleJim 9y ago
  Fine, but Romans aside, no one mentions Japanese, Chinese or Nepalese history. Central African history is whisked away (you ask them if they're the same race, and see what answer you get). The whole conversation is clouded is a horribly eurocentric manner, and put towards a narrative.
  - pm90 9y ago
    I sincerely don't believe you have researched your history well enough; and I'm trying to sound as nice as possible when pointing out this fact. You don't just throw in entire civilizations as having racist views (at least in the terms that we think of today, according to skin color). AFAIK the Chinese did consider anyone living outside Mainland China as "barbarians" but to a great extent, it was true (Turkic, Mongols living on the border etc.). They considered Ancient Indians in high regard (specifically I believe due to the Buddha being born in India) and the many Chinese travelers through India have left a well documented account of their travels which are one of the most important sources for historic event during this time. Japan has mostly been a self-contained country, occasionally fighting with Chinese until the Meiji Restoration and the Rise of the Japanese Armed Forces, which was late 19th century. One could credibly argue the racist views they picked up were as a direct result of aping the Western Powers that held similar views during this time period. I'm not familiar enough with Nepalese history to even know what you are talking about. Modern Racism is certainly a European invention, specifically brought about by European colonial interests.
    - UnpossibleJim 9y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China