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The idea of multiple races of humans existing is post-darwinian (correct me if I am wrong please). I would imagine most humans that lived in the time of the anc

The idea of multiple races of humans existing is post-darwinian (correct me if I am wrong please). I would imagine most humans that lived in the time of the ancient greeks saw different tribes and ethnicities. Even when they see someone from asia or africa, wouldn't they simply see a strange looking human from a strange land and tribe? The modern view of race that categorizes other ethnicities as almost an entirely different species requires ideological flexibility which to the best of my knowledge isn't compatible with the world view and beliefs of most ancient people. I am no history buff though, I would be interested in hearing a contradictory point of view.

Grustaf 8y ago
The concept of "white" is very new, I think it was invented by the Americans. The Greeks definitely didn't think in those terms, their racial consciousness was much more fine grained. They wouldn't have seen much affinity with say the barbaric Germanic tribes of the North just because both peoples were Caucasian. For them everybody else, with the exception of the Egyptians, where uncouth brutes or at best upstarts, but this was more of a cultural thing than a racial. "The modern view of race that categorizes other ethnicities as almost an entirely different species" On the contrary, people have never been less prone to dehumanise others than now. In the Ancient world every civilisation relied heavily on slaves, which definitely where considered less than human. Today it's hard even among hard core Nazis to find someone claiming that other races are non-human. Inferior perhaps, but still human.
detaro 8y ago
According to this wikipedia page, it seems like this idea of race is a few hundred years older than Darwin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts#Early_Modern_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts#Early...
pm90 8y ago
I don’t think Darwinism has anything to do with racism, except tangentially. Modern racism and the idea of some races being superior was the direct result of colonialism, and evolution was perhaps only one of the tools used to justify white supremacy ( another was Christianity). It is fascinating to see the dynamism of race in India. The early British (pre 1800s) didn’t seem to hold racist views of the natives, in fact many of them had Indian wives and children, and adopted Indian clothes and culture. Some even converted to Islam, many were fluent in Persian, the language of elites at the time. But that begins to change markedly when British supremacy is assured in secured in the 1800s after many successful wars.
- UnpossibleJim 8y ago
  I mean, this isn't exactly a new idea. If you go back to the Roman occupation of the British isles and the slaughter of it's peoples and the enslavement of the Judaic peoples and the Christian cults, based on Judaism. Hitler named his movement the third reich, meaning empire, modeling it after the Roman empire because he was a delusional nutbag but, again, unoriginal. But subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention. The Romani have been singled out, more recently, I guess, if you want (they used to be more commonly known as Gypsies, but this is an Eastern European slur, so I've been told). The whole "colonialism is to blame" is a new argument, to me, though. I do hear a lot more of these, "the past was a utopia, and modernity has screwed things up" statements of late and I can't figure out how..... maybe that wasn't your intention and I totally misread your statement. I apologize if that's the case.
  - bhaak 8y ago
    You're mixing different things. "Subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention". No, it isn't. But at least in the case of the Romans, there was no racism component in it (I'm not knowledgeable enough to say if other cases were racism related and therefore if it was or wasn't a 'white person invention'). The Romans were quite liberal, once you have let yourself be conquered by them. As long as you recognized the state and paid your taxes, you were free to do what you wanted. There are very few recorded persecutions of religion cults in non-christian Roman times because of this. Christians, Jews, druids and the followers of Bacchus, they all were considered a threat to the state and that's the reason they were persecuted, not because of some form of racism.
    - UnpossibleJim 8y ago
      Fine, but Romans aside, no one mentions Japanese, Chinese or Nepalese history. Central African history is whisked away (you ask them if they're the same race, and see what answer you get). The whole conversation is clouded is a horribly eurocentric manner, and put towards a narrative.

Grustaf 8y ago

The concept of "white" is very new, I think it was invented by the Americans. The Greeks definitely didn't think in those terms, their racial consciousness was much more fine grained. They wouldn't have seen much affinity with say the barbaric Germanic tribes of the North just because both peoples were Caucasian. For them everybody else, with the exception of the Egyptians, where uncouth brutes or at best upstarts, but this was more of a cultural thing than a racial. "The modern view of race that categorizes other ethnicities as almost an entirely different species" On the contrary, people have never been less prone to dehumanise others than now. In the Ancient world every civilisation relied heavily on slaves, which definitely where considered less than human. Today it's hard even among hard core Nazis to find someone claiming that other races are non-human. Inferior perhaps, but still human.

detaro 8y ago

According to this wikipedia page, it seems like this idea of race is a few hundred years older than Darwin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts#Early_Modern_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts#Early...

pm90 8y ago

I don’t think Darwinism has anything to do with racism, except tangentially. Modern racism and the idea of some races being superior was the direct result of colonialism, and evolution was perhaps only one of the tools used to justify white supremacy ( another was Christianity). It is fascinating to see the dynamism of race in India. The early British (pre 1800s) didn’t seem to hold racist views of the natives, in fact many of them had Indian wives and children, and adopted Indian clothes and culture. Some even converted to Islam, many were fluent in Persian, the language of elites at the time. But that begins to change markedly when British supremacy is assured in secured in the 1800s after many successful wars.

UnpossibleJim 8y ago
I mean, this isn't exactly a new idea. If you go back to the Roman occupation of the British isles and the slaughter of it's peoples and the enslavement of the Judaic peoples and the Christian cults, based on Judaism. Hitler named his movement the third reich, meaning empire, modeling it after the Roman empire because he was a delusional nutbag but, again, unoriginal. But subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention. The Romani have been singled out, more recently, I guess, if you want (they used to be more commonly known as Gypsies, but this is an Eastern European slur, so I've been told). The whole "colonialism is to blame" is a new argument, to me, though. I do hear a lot more of these, "the past was a utopia, and modernity has screwed things up" statements of late and I can't figure out how..... maybe that wasn't your intention and I totally misread your statement. I apologize if that's the case.
- bhaak 8y ago
  You're mixing different things. "Subjugation or slaughter of different races/tribes/peoples is certainly not a modern white person invention". No, it isn't. But at least in the case of the Romans, there was no racism component in it (I'm not knowledgeable enough to say if other cases were racism related and therefore if it was or wasn't a 'white person invention'). The Romans were quite liberal, once you have let yourself be conquered by them. As long as you recognized the state and paid your taxes, you were free to do what you wanted. There are very few recorded persecutions of religion cults in non-christian Roman times because of this. Christians, Jews, druids and the followers of Bacchus, they all were considered a threat to the state and that's the reason they were persecuted, not because of some form of racism.
  - UnpossibleJim 8y ago
    Fine, but Romans aside, no one mentions Japanese, Chinese or Nepalese history. Central African history is whisked away (you ask them if they're the same race, and see what answer you get). The whole conversation is clouded is a horribly eurocentric manner, and put towards a narrative.