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I don't know if you are intentionally trolling but I'll bite. Independent hacker culture is the exact thing at risk here without government intervention. Else,

I don't know if you are intentionally trolling but I'll bite. Independent hacker culture is the exact thing at risk here without government intervention. Else, you'll end up with the fragmented Verizon hacker culture and the Comcast hacker culture and the... Goddess forbid Google / Facebook / Amazon hacker culture, each with its own non-independent thought. As an aside, Why are regulations that prevent bad actors from damaging society, thought of as unnecessary control in the US (see the other big ___ control issue)?

briandear 8y ago
Because regulations that “prevent” bad actors actually have unintended consequences that the big-government people never seem to grasp. And free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation — while preserving freedom for people to make their own choices. Certain European governments in the past century made regulations to “protect” society — and that resulted in millions of people killed or displaced. China’s Firewall is design to protect society against “bad actors,” and it instead suppresses the free speech of an entire nation. “Bad Actors” to you are innovators, hackers and freedoms fighters to someone else. Trust in government is the stupidest thing a society can ever do. We need governments for sure, but it should be a government with extensive limits to their power and it should be viewed with an attitude of suspicion. But, it seems like people instead are relying upon government to be replacements for parents instead.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  >"free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation — while preserving freedom for people to make their own choices." That is absolute nonsense, especially for last-mile services, such as electricity, water, sewage, cable and internet. Nobody is going to dig redundant infrastructure, because the entrenched monopoly will simply freeze out any new competitors. It even happened to Google Fiber, despite their gigantic moneybags and public support. There is no choice when an entrenched monopoly can eliminate all competitors, thanks to the monopoly position. Free markets are not the solution to every problem, or even to most problems.
- devnonymous 8y ago
  > And free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation — while preserving freedom for people to make their own choices. Wrong. > Trust in government is the stupidest thing a society can ever do. We need governments for sure, but it should be a government with extensive limits to their power and it should be viewed with an attitude of suspicion Right. And this is where the devil lies in the details. It is not impossible to define clearly the extent and limits of government regulations. It isn't rocket science. Hell, some countries already have these. But if you're mind is already made up and you firmly believe America is the greatest damm country in the universe and every principle it holds dear (or claims to hold dear, via gratuitous mental gymnastics to rationalise the opposite), there's no point in convincing you otherwise.
- speedplane 8y ago
  > And free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation Agreed, but free markets rarely exist. There are almost always market forces that prevent them from being free. The broadband internet market is Exhibit A. Most consumers have only one choice of broadband, and very few have more than two choices. In many markets, there is effectively no competition, which allows the utility to act as a monopoly and due whatever it wants. I would be okay with dropping net neutrality if every American had 5 choices for internet service. But that's not what happening here. In the US we have a handful of companies that act as monopolies (the exact opposite of a free market), and exert the market control power for richer profits. Any free market proponent would agree that this is not just unfair, but economically inefficient.

briandear 8y ago

Because regulations that “prevent” bad actors actually have unintended consequences that the big-government people never seem to grasp. And free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation — while preserving freedom for people to make their own choices. Certain European governments in the past century made regulations to “protect” society — and that resulted in millions of people killed or displaced. China’s Firewall is design to protect society against “bad actors,” and it instead suppresses the free speech of an entire nation. “Bad Actors” to you are innovators, hackers and freedoms fighters to someone else. Trust in government is the stupidest thing a society can ever do. We need governments for sure, but it should be a government with extensive limits to their power and it should be viewed with an attitude of suspicion. But, it seems like people instead are relying upon government to be replacements for parents instead.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
>"free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation — while preserving freedom for people to make their own choices." That is absolute nonsense, especially for last-mile services, such as electricity, water, sewage, cable and internet. Nobody is going to dig redundant infrastructure, because the entrenched monopoly will simply freeze out any new competitors. It even happened to Google Fiber, despite their gigantic moneybags and public support. There is no choice when an entrenched monopoly can eliminate all competitors, thanks to the monopoly position. Free markets are not the solution to every problem, or even to most problems.
devnonymous 8y ago
> And free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation — while preserving freedom for people to make their own choices. Wrong. > Trust in government is the stupidest thing a society can ever do. We need governments for sure, but it should be a government with extensive limits to their power and it should be viewed with an attitude of suspicion Right. And this is where the devil lies in the details. It is not impossible to define clearly the extent and limits of government regulations. It isn't rocket science. Hell, some countries already have these. But if you're mind is already made up and you firmly believe America is the greatest damm country in the universe and every principle it holds dear (or claims to hold dear, via gratuitous mental gymnastics to rationalise the opposite), there's no point in convincing you otherwise.
speedplane 8y ago
> And free markets are far more powerful and adapt far more quickly than regulation Agreed, but free markets rarely exist. There are almost always market forces that prevent them from being free. The broadband internet market is Exhibit A. Most consumers have only one choice of broadband, and very few have more than two choices. In many markets, there is effectively no competition, which allows the utility to act as a monopoly and due whatever it wants. I would be okay with dropping net neutrality if every American had 5 choices for internet service. But that's not what happening here. In the US we have a handful of companies that act as monopolies (the exact opposite of a free market), and exert the market control power for richer profits. Any free market proponent would agree that this is not just unfair, but economically inefficient.