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I feel a great deal of sadness and sympathy for drug addicts when I think about them, and a great deal of resentment and anger at drug addicts when I think abou

I feel a great deal of sadness and sympathy for drug addicts when I think about them, and a great deal of resentment and anger at drug addicts when I think about the other people in their lives.

leetcrew 8y ago
i can understand this sentiment, but there are many mental illnesses that bring pain to the people around the afflicted. why do we single drug addicts out for judgement? anecdotally, i have seen that the ones that recover do not succeed through willpower or strength of character. the main factor is the strength of their support network. it is not a moral deficiency.
- cfadvan 8y ago
  i can understand this sentiment, but there are many mental illnesses that bring pain to the people around the afflicted. why do we single drug addicts out for judgement? At some point a drug addict, predisposition and circumstances aside, had to make a choice to start taking drugs. Someone with a mental illness never chose to flirt with mental illness, they’re just mentally ill. Now, I also have a lot of sympathy for drug addicts, because we can’t ignore predisposition and environment, but it was still, somewhere in their past, a matter of choice. I don’t think that means we should hang them out to dry, but it’s not quite the same as someone who was just born sick. Of course that does exclude the hefty portion of the drug addicted populace who found their way to drugs as the result of a mental illness...
  - Chernobog 8y ago
    Talking about environment, I saw a very good quote by a woman named Tine Brubak Jahren, that I have taken the liberty to translate to English: "It's odd when it comes to sympathy for drug addicts: Everyone has much sympathy for sexually abused children, children of drug addicts, victims of violence and abuse, people with mental health issues that are not helped by the system. BUT, when they grow up to become dysfunctional adults that use drugs to take away the pain and their problems, then it is suddenly full stop for the sympathy. Suddenly, they are expected to take charge of their lives and behave like everyone else, and if they can't do that, there is no lack of suggestions such as sending them to desolate islands, forced sterilization or simply locking them up for life." She makes a great point, that also highlights the absurdity of using fines and prison for addicts. The system essentially punishes them for something the system has predisposed them to.
    - cfadvan 8y ago
      I agree with the conclusion, but the problem with perception is that no sexually abused child or child of an addictt ever made a choice to be that child. 100% of the time, they’re purely victims. A lot of drug addicts are the same way, but quite a few are also people who enjoyed doing drugs until it got the better of them. They’re not all abused children or mentally ill, some are just drug addicts. The result is that you can be unreservedly sympathetic with abused children, but need a bit of background to feel the same sympathy for an addict. Now, I’d argue that either way treatment and support is the answer, not jail. I’d also argue that the addicts who were screwed over and over into addiction are enough of a majority that we should give all addicts the benefit of the doubt. However I also understand the perspective of people who have been urned by those addicts who are just selfish assholes, and can’t manage that. They shouldn’t set policy, but they’d have a valid view too. tl;dr All victims of child abuse are victims, some drug addicts are only victims of their own poor decisions.
      - cm2012 8y ago
        Except that twin research shows that drug use and progression from light drugs to hard drugs to addiction is largely from genetics: https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-events/nida-notes/twin-studies-help-define-role-genes-in-vulnerability-to-drug-abuse https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-events/nida-notes/twin-s... Some quotes: > "The progression from the use of cocaine or marijuana to abuse or dependence was due largely to genetic factors." > "The genetic influence for abuse was greater for heroin than for any other drug." Different paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/9780470015902.a0005230.pub2 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/978047001590... "For instance, it is estimated that 50–60% of the variation in risk for alcoholism is accounted for by genetic factors." Now add this on top of the stuff that affects you growing up you can't control. Saying, "enjoyed doing drugs until it got the better of them" ignores that whether or not you're going to be driven towards drugs is largely determined before you're even born.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    > At some point a drug addict, predisposition and circumstances aside, had to make a choice to start taking drugs. Someone with a mental illness never chose to flirt with mental illness, they’re just mentally ill. as you point out later in your comment, there is significant overlap between drug addiction and other mental illness. it seems unfair to make the "original bad choice" argument in regards to people who didn't start off with a sound mind. i see a couple other issues with this common indictment of addicts. many people use alcohol without negative consequences, and it is considered acceptable to do so. are you going to go back and fault an alcoholic for taking the risk of having a first beer? another issue (and i believe this may be controversial) is that addiction as a mental disorder may exist in some latent state well before a person ever tries a drug. if so, the question is less "will they become addicted to drugs?" and more "if not drugs, what will they become addicted to instead?". my final objection is that drug addiction is not particularly unique among mental disorders in that it is possibly caused/triggered by an initial poor choice. explicit decisions (like deciding to try/use drugs) and more general lifestyle are significant risk factors in many mental illnesses (e.g. depression, schizophrenia), but people with these afflictions receive sympathy that is far less conditional. my personal take: we see addicts behave in ways that appear irrational and antisocial. when we are close to them, it causes us immense emotional pain and it can cost a lot of money to help them. we resent that they seem to be blissfully high while we clean up their messes. there is not a whole lot of incentive to understand how it isn't their fault. the less we can blame them, the harder we find it to draw the line where we can feel okay about cutting them off.
  - nadezhda18 8y ago
    > but it was still, somewhere in their past, a matter of choice what about people who were just obediently following their doctors' prescriptions?
- ralusek 8y ago
  No drug addict is an addict due to moral deficiency? I find that people's individual circumstances vary dramatically.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Some people simply don't get addicted to the same drugs despite similar usage habits as others. So I suspect susceptibility to addiction is almost purely a function of biology. That's not to say people can't get past the handicap, but IMO it's not even close to a level playing field. Personally, I have zero attraction to alcohol and drink something like 3-5 times a decade. However, even a brief exposure to cigarettes as a teen as in less than a single pack was enough to get a very strong craving. I responded to that by avoidance, but even 20 years later I still have a craving it simply never went away. However plenty of people have the reverse reactions with heavy alcohol addiction.

I feel a great deal of sadness and sympathy for drug addicts when I think about them, and a great deal of resentment and anger at drug addicts when I think about the other people in their lives.

leetcrew 8y ago

i can understand this sentiment, but there are many mental illnesses that bring pain to the people around the afflicted. why do we single drug addicts out for judgement? anecdotally, i have seen that the ones that recover do not succeed through willpower or strength of character. the main factor is the strength of their support network. it is not a moral deficiency.

cfadvan 8y ago
i can understand this sentiment, but there are many mental illnesses that bring pain to the people around the afflicted. why do we single drug addicts out for judgement? At some point a drug addict, predisposition and circumstances aside, had to make a choice to start taking drugs. Someone with a mental illness never chose to flirt with mental illness, they’re just mentally ill. Now, I also have a lot of sympathy for drug addicts, because we can’t ignore predisposition and environment, but it was still, somewhere in their past, a matter of choice. I don’t think that means we should hang them out to dry, but it’s not quite the same as someone who was just born sick. Of course that does exclude the hefty portion of the drug addicted populace who found their way to drugs as the result of a mental illness...
- Chernobog 8y ago
  Talking about environment, I saw a very good quote by a woman named Tine Brubak Jahren, that I have taken the liberty to translate to English: "It's odd when it comes to sympathy for drug addicts: Everyone has much sympathy for sexually abused children, children of drug addicts, victims of violence and abuse, people with mental health issues that are not helped by the system. BUT, when they grow up to become dysfunctional adults that use drugs to take away the pain and their problems, then it is suddenly full stop for the sympathy. Suddenly, they are expected to take charge of their lives and behave like everyone else, and if they can't do that, there is no lack of suggestions such as sending them to desolate islands, forced sterilization or simply locking them up for life." She makes a great point, that also highlights the absurdity of using fines and prison for addicts. The system essentially punishes them for something the system has predisposed them to.
  - cfadvan 8y ago
    I agree with the conclusion, but the problem with perception is that no sexually abused child or child of an addictt ever made a choice to be that child. 100% of the time, they’re purely victims. A lot of drug addicts are the same way, but quite a few are also people who enjoyed doing drugs until it got the better of them. They’re not all abused children or mentally ill, some are just drug addicts. The result is that you can be unreservedly sympathetic with abused children, but need a bit of background to feel the same sympathy for an addict. Now, I’d argue that either way treatment and support is the answer, not jail. I’d also argue that the addicts who were screwed over and over into addiction are enough of a majority that we should give all addicts the benefit of the doubt. However I also understand the perspective of people who have been urned by those addicts who are just selfish assholes, and can’t manage that. They shouldn’t set policy, but they’d have a valid view too. tl;dr All victims of child abuse are victims, some drug addicts are only victims of their own poor decisions.
    - cm2012 8y ago
      Except that twin research shows that drug use and progression from light drugs to hard drugs to addiction is largely from genetics: https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-events/nida-notes/twin-studies-help-define-role-genes-in-vulnerability-to-drug-abuse https://archives.drugabuse.gov/news-events/nida-notes/twin-s... Some quotes: > "The progression from the use of cocaine or marijuana to abuse or dependence was due largely to genetic factors." > "The genetic influence for abuse was greater for heroin than for any other drug." Different paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/9780470015902.a0005230.pub2 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/978047001590... "For instance, it is estimated that 50–60% of the variation in risk for alcoholism is accounted for by genetic factors." Now add this on top of the stuff that affects you growing up you can't control. Saying, "enjoyed doing drugs until it got the better of them" ignores that whether or not you're going to be driven towards drugs is largely determined before you're even born.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  > At some point a drug addict, predisposition and circumstances aside, had to make a choice to start taking drugs. Someone with a mental illness never chose to flirt with mental illness, they’re just mentally ill. as you point out later in your comment, there is significant overlap between drug addiction and other mental illness. it seems unfair to make the "original bad choice" argument in regards to people who didn't start off with a sound mind. i see a couple other issues with this common indictment of addicts. many people use alcohol without negative consequences, and it is considered acceptable to do so. are you going to go back and fault an alcoholic for taking the risk of having a first beer? another issue (and i believe this may be controversial) is that addiction as a mental disorder may exist in some latent state well before a person ever tries a drug. if so, the question is less "will they become addicted to drugs?" and more "if not drugs, what will they become addicted to instead?". my final objection is that drug addiction is not particularly unique among mental disorders in that it is possibly caused/triggered by an initial poor choice. explicit decisions (like deciding to try/use drugs) and more general lifestyle are significant risk factors in many mental illnesses (e.g. depression, schizophrenia), but people with these afflictions receive sympathy that is far less conditional. my personal take: we see addicts behave in ways that appear irrational and antisocial. when we are close to them, it causes us immense emotional pain and it can cost a lot of money to help them. we resent that they seem to be blissfully high while we clean up their messes. there is not a whole lot of incentive to understand how it isn't their fault. the less we can blame them, the harder we find it to draw the line where we can feel okay about cutting them off.
- nadezhda18 8y ago
  > but it was still, somewhere in their past, a matter of choice what about people who were just obediently following their doctors' prescriptions?
ralusek 8y ago
No drug addict is an addict due to moral deficiency? I find that people's individual circumstances vary dramatically.
- Retric 8y ago
  Some people simply don't get addicted to the same drugs despite similar usage habits as others. So I suspect susceptibility to addiction is almost purely a function of biology. That's not to say people can't get past the handicap, but IMO it's not even close to a level playing field. Personally, I have zero attraction to alcohol and drink something like 3-5 times a decade. However, even a brief exposure to cigarettes as a teen as in less than a single pack was enough to get a very strong craving. I responded to that by avoidance, but even 20 years later I still have a craving it simply never went away. However plenty of people have the reverse reactions with heavy alcohol addiction.