4 ms·

“Vestager has been a professional politician since the age of 21” This is kind of sad. A little for Europe, but mostly for her. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik

“Vestager has been a professional politician since the age of 21” This is kind of sad. A little for Europe, but mostly for her. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margrethe_Vestager https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margrethe_Vestager

sjg007 8y ago
Why?
runesoerensen 8y ago
Vestager is an extremely skilled politician and I'm certain she's not sad about the situation. Denmark and Europe (and to some degree, the US) have certainly benefitted from her work. It's not sad that she has chosen to apply her many skills in something she's passionate about and good at.
- gaadd33 8y ago
  So her whole career is based off of playing different people against each other and pandering to whomever holds the most power? I don't think it's any better than an American politician but still a far cry from those who felt that politicians should serve their communities for a few years and then go back to an actual career.
  - runesoerensen 8y ago
    > So her whole career is based off of playing different people against each other and pandering to whomever holds the most power? That's a very loaded and negative way to portray a career politician, but more importantly it's also completely unsubstantiated -- how is this relevant to Vestager? For instance, why do you use the word "pander" to describe her work? Pander means to "gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit or a person with such a desire, etc.)". I think that sort of language should be used carefully, and at the very least it should be substantiated in terms of how it relates to the person you're talking about. I've followed Vestager's career for over 15 years, and I don't think your characterization of her work is accurate at all. You might be able to clarify why you describe her that way, and that seems to be necessary for a substantive discussion on this. > I don't think it's any better than an American politician There are great American politicians for sure, but one thing I would note here is that there are significant differences in public trust and corruption levels between the US and Denmark (where Vestager has spent the vast majority of her public life). There's a high level of accountability, public scrutiny and public interest in how politicians work, and corruption is very low [0]. I think this plays a role in terms of how "good" the politicians are "on average" in a country, and to what degree they can be trusted. [0] Corruption is obviously hard to quantify, but one way to measure/approximate it is the Corruption Perceptions Index [0] where "Denmark is the least corrupt country in the world, ranking consistently high among international financial transparency", and the U.S. ranked 18th in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
    - ardit33 8y ago
      If you view the "Athenian" version of democracy as the purest form, career politicians (aka, the political class), should not exist. But in theory, it did exists in antique Greece and even more so later in the Roman Republic. Career politicians create the "political class" which eventually over time becomes a corrupted class. What the OP meant, is that a country is best served by normal citizens, or specialist (in their industry), helping out, getting elected, serving their term, and moving on with their private lifes, then people that pursue politics for the politics sake. They will/tend to create dramma, even when it is not there. "Political class, or political elite is a concept in comparative political science originally developed by Italian political theorist theory of Gaetano Mosca (1858–1941). ... Elected legislatures may become dominated by subject-matter specialists, aided by permanent staffs, who become a political class." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_class
      - runesoerensen 8y ago
        Sure, but the commenters I've responded to have in my opinion failed to explain how the issues related to political elites etc are relevant specifically in the context of Vestager's battles with major tech companies. It reads a lot more like unsubstantiated smearing and hand-waving. I personally don't think that the battles Vestager/the EC are picking are out of touch with the competition and antitrust challenges faced by the EU, US and world as a whole. It'd be interesting if someone could explain how Vestager's extensive political career disqualifies her. In fact, it's worth considering that it might be exactly what qualifies her / has made her more effective than her predecessors (and US counterparts); perhaps this level of political and regulatory experience is necessary in order play a meaningful role, and protect the interests of the people she and the EU represents? By the way, I don't think the Athenian version of democracy is particularly relevant here (or most discussions about modern democracies for that matter). Governing a very small 5th century BC city is completely different from governing regions comprising hundreds of millions of people in societies that are vastly more developed and complex. The Athenian model wasn't exactly developed to address the challenges that we're facing today - although some ideas, such as how long a politician should serve, can still have value. That does however at best seem like a tangential discussion with little significance in the context of this article.
wingerlang 8y ago
Why?
- abenedic 8y ago
  Some people believe that entering politics "dirties" a person since some politicians are corrupt or self serving. People like that tend to believe that private enterprise is somehow more wholesome or honorable.
  - Applejinx 8y ago
    Which is mighty hilarious, in 2018 :)
  - new299 8y ago
    That's quite clearly not the only reason (and I'm be surprised if it was the majority reason in Europe) that people object to "career" politicians. The other, reason I've heard is that people who have not worked in industry (at any level) do not have real world experience required to guide policy effectively, and means they are out of touch with voters in general.
    - hendzen 8y ago
      Guiding policy is a rather small part of being a politician and usually something (at least in the US) that is dealt with partially by aides. Being a politician in a democracy is about winning elections and forming consensus in democratic bodies once elected. Being in industry doesn't necessarily prepare one to have those skills - example left to the reader.
bitwize 8y ago
It's European politics. In Western Europe, there are career politicians who actually fight for the common people and get good things done.
- goletcho 8y ago
  Like implementing mini jobs at 450/mo? http://www.bmas.de/EN/Our-Topics/Social-Security/450-euro-mini-jobs-marginal-employment.html http://www.bmas.de/EN/Our-Topics/Social-Security/450-euro-mi... Mini jobs in research: https://euraxess.ec.europa.eu/jobs/224824 https://euraxess.ec.europa.eu/jobs/224824
eksemplar 8y ago
Most our top politicians (I’m Danish) are career politicians. They typically get a candidate in law or political science at the university and then get into national politics where they do little else until they are done with politics if ever. It’s much more of a trade or a career in Scandinavia than it is in America. If you’re building a space program, you hire engineers. If you’re leading a country you hire people who know law, economics and political science. Aside from that the road to the top in Europe is a little different than it is to the top of America. You need to be actually great at the political craft because you can’t just buy your way up. Vestager is so great at the craft that even though she’s in the opposition to the three parties that currently lead our country, they still appointed her. Possible because they fear her return to national politics, but more likely because she’s actually that good.

sjg007 8y ago

Why?

runesoerensen 8y ago

Vestager is an extremely skilled politician and I'm certain she's not sad about the situation. Denmark and Europe (and to some degree, the US) have certainly benefitted from her work. It's not sad that she has chosen to apply her many skills in something she's passionate about and good at.

gaadd33 8y ago
So her whole career is based off of playing different people against each other and pandering to whomever holds the most power? I don't think it's any better than an American politician but still a far cry from those who felt that politicians should serve their communities for a few years and then go back to an actual career.
- runesoerensen 8y ago
  > So her whole career is based off of playing different people against each other and pandering to whomever holds the most power? That's a very loaded and negative way to portray a career politician, but more importantly it's also completely unsubstantiated -- how is this relevant to Vestager? For instance, why do you use the word "pander" to describe her work? Pander means to "gratify or indulge (an immoral or distasteful desire, need, or habit or a person with such a desire, etc.)". I think that sort of language should be used carefully, and at the very least it should be substantiated in terms of how it relates to the person you're talking about. I've followed Vestager's career for over 15 years, and I don't think your characterization of her work is accurate at all. You might be able to clarify why you describe her that way, and that seems to be necessary for a substantive discussion on this. > I don't think it's any better than an American politician There are great American politicians for sure, but one thing I would note here is that there are significant differences in public trust and corruption levels between the US and Denmark (where Vestager has spent the vast majority of her public life). There's a high level of accountability, public scrutiny and public interest in how politicians work, and corruption is very low [0]. I think this plays a role in terms of how "good" the politicians are "on average" in a country, and to what degree they can be trusted. [0] Corruption is obviously hard to quantify, but one way to measure/approximate it is the Corruption Perceptions Index [0] where "Denmark is the least corrupt country in the world, ranking consistently high among international financial transparency", and the U.S. ranked 18th in 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
  - ardit33 8y ago
    If you view the "Athenian" version of democracy as the purest form, career politicians (aka, the political class), should not exist. But in theory, it did exists in antique Greece and even more so later in the Roman Republic. Career politicians create the "political class" which eventually over time becomes a corrupted class. What the OP meant, is that a country is best served by normal citizens, or specialist (in their industry), helping out, getting elected, serving their term, and moving on with their private lifes, then people that pursue politics for the politics sake. They will/tend to create dramma, even when it is not there. "Political class, or political elite is a concept in comparative political science originally developed by Italian political theorist theory of Gaetano Mosca (1858–1941). ... Elected legislatures may become dominated by subject-matter specialists, aided by permanent staffs, who become a political class." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_class
    - runesoerensen 8y ago
      Sure, but the commenters I've responded to have in my opinion failed to explain how the issues related to political elites etc are relevant specifically in the context of Vestager's battles with major tech companies. It reads a lot more like unsubstantiated smearing and hand-waving. I personally don't think that the battles Vestager/the EC are picking are out of touch with the competition and antitrust challenges faced by the EU, US and world as a whole. It'd be interesting if someone could explain how Vestager's extensive political career disqualifies her. In fact, it's worth considering that it might be exactly what qualifies her / has made her more effective than her predecessors (and US counterparts); perhaps this level of political and regulatory experience is necessary in order play a meaningful role, and protect the interests of the people she and the EU represents? By the way, I don't think the Athenian version of democracy is particularly relevant here (or most discussions about modern democracies for that matter). Governing a very small 5th century BC city is completely different from governing regions comprising hundreds of millions of people in societies that are vastly more developed and complex. The Athenian model wasn't exactly developed to address the challenges that we're facing today - although some ideas, such as how long a politician should serve, can still have value. That does however at best seem like a tangential discussion with little significance in the context of this article.

wingerlang 8y ago

Why?

abenedic 8y ago
Some people believe that entering politics "dirties" a person since some politicians are corrupt or self serving. People like that tend to believe that private enterprise is somehow more wholesome or honorable.
- Applejinx 8y ago
  Which is mighty hilarious, in 2018 :)
- new299 8y ago
  That's quite clearly not the only reason (and I'm be surprised if it was the majority reason in Europe) that people object to "career" politicians. The other, reason I've heard is that people who have not worked in industry (at any level) do not have real world experience required to guide policy effectively, and means they are out of touch with voters in general.
  - hendzen 8y ago
    Guiding policy is a rather small part of being a politician and usually something (at least in the US) that is dealt with partially by aides. Being a politician in a democracy is about winning elections and forming consensus in democratic bodies once elected. Being in industry doesn't necessarily prepare one to have those skills - example left to the reader.

bitwize 8y ago

It's European politics. In Western Europe, there are career politicians who actually fight for the common people and get good things done.

goletcho 8y ago
Like implementing mini jobs at 450/mo? http://www.bmas.de/EN/Our-Topics/Social-Security/450-euro-mini-jobs-marginal-employment.html http://www.bmas.de/EN/Our-Topics/Social-Security/450-euro-mi... Mini jobs in research: https://euraxess.ec.europa.eu/jobs/224824 https://euraxess.ec.europa.eu/jobs/224824

eksemplar 8y ago

Most our top politicians (I’m Danish) are career politicians. They typically get a candidate in law or political science at the university and then get into national politics where they do little else until they are done with politics if ever. It’s much more of a trade or a career in Scandinavia than it is in America. If you’re building a space program, you hire engineers. If you’re leading a country you hire people who know law, economics and political science. Aside from that the road to the top in Europe is a little different than it is to the top of America. You need to be actually great at the political craft because you can’t just buy your way up. Vestager is so great at the craft that even though she’s in the opposition to the three parties that currently lead our country, they still appointed her. Possible because they fear her return to national politics, but more likely because she’s actually that good.