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There's a similar experience I've seen with YouTube. The first hundred subscribers(assuming you don't ask friends and family to subscribe) is always the hardest

by otalp 8y ago

There's a similar experience I've seen with YouTube. The first hundred subscribers(assuming you don't ask friends and family to subscribe) is always the hardest, and even if you're putting out higher quality content than the big channels, it's difficult to break that barrier. Once you cross that barrier, getting from 100->1000 usually takes half the time, and it becomes successively easier to get more views and subscribers with less effort. Once you're in the hundred thousands you can earn a decent side-income from just putting out a video a day, and once you're in the millions you can be set for life with little effort assuming you don't have high production costs. It is a snowballing effect, but most people never cross the initial tough barriers(after 10k, it becomes relatively easy to keep growing). In order to cross it, it either involves luck, or you have to know someone more popular than you who can boost your channel.

michaelbuckbee 8y ago
Out of curiosity, how difficult would it be to "buy" your way in? I'm thinking you could more or less hire influencers to recommend your channel/content?
- otalp 8y ago
  I doubt the really big ones would do it - and anyone moderately successful is still going to ask for like thousands of dollars. But yeah, if you have money to burn that can probably boost you - but most people don't, so it again favours the people who already have an advantage.
- blackflame7000 8y ago
  There are actually many businesses predominately in Asia or India that sell clicks/likes
CryoLogic 8y ago
In my experience growing a successful(ish?) YouTube channel, the initial barrier was more like 10k subs. I don't even upload anymore and still get hundreds of subs per month. But the way YouTube works is a bit more difficult. Higher subscriber counts get you higher CPM rates. Higher CPM rate videos place higher in search. I've actually seen this myself in my own competing videos. YouTube really pushes video CPM rate in search. So on YouTube, the barrier to entry is extremely difficult. To hit 10k subs I had to do tons of marketing, guest posts, bought some advertising. 10-20k? Just post a video every week. 20-30k? Just post a video every month or two.
- iamgopal 8y ago
  If you don't mind sharing, what is approx income from it ?
  - SQL2219 8y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16473524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16473524
  - CryoLogic 8y ago
    Ad rates keep dropping and the algorithm changes have chopped off more than half my organic traffic. 2016 was my best year and I made about $500-$750/mo. This year about $100/mo. In 2016 I got ad rates from 20-30/1k now it's 5-8/1k. Channel is a coding channel: http://youtube.com/devfactor http://youtube.com/devfactor
3pt14159 8y ago
On Twitter it seems to be somewhere in the 500 to 1000 followers count before things become an order of magnitude easier. I don't think it's just the cumulative advantage of having more people retweet you (and thus the greater relative ease of getting in front of people) I think it's also learning how to present a constant "face" on Twitter. By the time you're at 1000+ followers you've figured out how to be interesting, how to be consistent, you've streamlined your personal site to point people towards your Twitter and all of this feeds back in on itself.
- ghaff 8y ago
  That assumes that people are trying to optimize their Twitter "face." There's definitely a difference between a very focused profile around something specific and something more general that mixes different topics, including personal ones.
  - 3pt14159 8y ago
    Yeah I resist it to my own detriment. But on the other hand, I get people not wanting to hear about what I think about Canada's foreign minister (my favourite politician) when they're following me to read data science and cyber security articles.
wallflower 8y ago
> but most people never cross the initial tough barriers(after 10k, it becomes relatively easy to keep growing) I've heard that after the magic number of 10k subscribers, you have an open invite to the YouTube space in LA/NYC and can use their substantial production equipment and be mentored. I imagine the long tail for YouTube starts around 1000 subscribers.
sv12l 8y ago
Isn't it this very HN voting system also based on the same premise? Getting past first few votes (the hardest) take you to the wider world.
- slx26 8y ago
  well, you have some exposure time when your comment is very recent. if we all deserve equal chances but there are many of us, then the exposure time is quite limited. it's a much better system than most others out there. "direct democracy" is hard when you expect others to be listening
openfuture 8y ago
Another good example is google. Why are we doing SEO? Does that even make sense? Isn't it their job to figure out the results that have the most value to the searcher and our job to create good content regardless of how people stumble upon it.
- Abhishek41783 8y ago
  I've often wondered if optimization of content for higher ranking or worse yet, engineering content based on what's trending, defeats the very purpose of a search engine: to provide relevant, high quality content. It's like everyone in Hollywood making superhero movies because they make money. We'd never have movies like Walk the line, Shawshank Redemption, life of pi

by otalp 8y ago

michaelbuckbee 8y ago

Out of curiosity, how difficult would it be to "buy" your way in? I'm thinking you could more or less hire influencers to recommend your channel/content?

otalp 8y ago
I doubt the really big ones would do it - and anyone moderately successful is still going to ask for like thousands of dollars. But yeah, if you have money to burn that can probably boost you - but most people don't, so it again favours the people who already have an advantage.
blackflame7000 8y ago
There are actually many businesses predominately in Asia or India that sell clicks/likes

CryoLogic 8y ago

In my experience growing a successful(ish?) YouTube channel, the initial barrier was more like 10k subs. I don't even upload anymore and still get hundreds of subs per month. But the way YouTube works is a bit more difficult. Higher subscriber counts get you higher CPM rates. Higher CPM rate videos place higher in search. I've actually seen this myself in my own competing videos. YouTube really pushes video CPM rate in search. So on YouTube, the barrier to entry is extremely difficult. To hit 10k subs I had to do tons of marketing, guest posts, bought some advertising. 10-20k? Just post a video every week. 20-30k? Just post a video every month or two.

iamgopal 8y ago
If you don't mind sharing, what is approx income from it ?
- SQL2219 8y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16473524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16473524
- CryoLogic 8y ago
  Ad rates keep dropping and the algorithm changes have chopped off more than half my organic traffic. 2016 was my best year and I made about $500-$750/mo. This year about $100/mo. In 2016 I got ad rates from 20-30/1k now it's 5-8/1k. Channel is a coding channel: http://youtube.com/devfactor http://youtube.com/devfactor

3pt14159 8y ago

On Twitter it seems to be somewhere in the 500 to 1000 followers count before things become an order of magnitude easier. I don't think it's just the cumulative advantage of having more people retweet you (and thus the greater relative ease of getting in front of people) I think it's also learning how to present a constant "face" on Twitter. By the time you're at 1000+ followers you've figured out how to be interesting, how to be consistent, you've streamlined your personal site to point people towards your Twitter and all of this feeds back in on itself.

ghaff 8y ago
That assumes that people are trying to optimize their Twitter "face." There's definitely a difference between a very focused profile around something specific and something more general that mixes different topics, including personal ones.
- 3pt14159 8y ago
  Yeah I resist it to my own detriment. But on the other hand, I get people not wanting to hear about what I think about Canada's foreign minister (my favourite politician) when they're following me to read data science and cyber security articles.

wallflower 8y ago

> but most people never cross the initial tough barriers(after 10k, it becomes relatively easy to keep growing) I've heard that after the magic number of 10k subscribers, you have an open invite to the YouTube space in LA/NYC and can use their substantial production equipment and be mentored. I imagine the long tail for YouTube starts around 1000 subscribers.

sv12l 8y ago

Isn't it this very HN voting system also based on the same premise? Getting past first few votes (the hardest) take you to the wider world.

slx26 8y ago
well, you have some exposure time when your comment is very recent. if we all deserve equal chances but there are many of us, then the exposure time is quite limited. it's a much better system than most others out there. "direct democracy" is hard when you expect others to be listening

openfuture 8y ago

Another good example is google. Why are we doing SEO? Does that even make sense? Isn't it their job to figure out the results that have the most value to the searcher and our job to create good content regardless of how people stumble upon it.

Abhishek41783 8y ago
I've often wondered if optimization of content for higher ranking or worse yet, engineering content based on what's trending, defeats the very purpose of a search engine: to provide relevant, high quality content. It's like everyone in Hollywood making superhero movies because they make money. We'd never have movies like Walk the line, Shawshank Redemption, life of pi