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Poor examples - Ford produced only the Model T for two decades. Toyota has been around for 80 years.

meritt 8y ago
Why is it a poor example? I'm comparing a car company that, over 100 years ago in 1914, was producing 714 vehicles a day by hand with 13,000 workers [1] to a company in 2018 with 37,000 employees utilizing robots yet manages to only produce half that amount? [1] https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbes/ford.html https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbe...
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  How many total employees did Ford have, total? How many of Tesla's total employees are in line work/production? How difficult is the relative assembly of a Model T vs a Model 3 (ie, how many parts, welds, fasteners, etc)? I honestly have no idea how to compare them fairly, but I am not impressed by your analysis so far.
  - meritt 8y ago
    I can't speak to the relative complexity of the two machines either (obviously a Tesla is vastly more technologically complex but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more difficult to assemble: assembling computers today is extremely easy compared to 30 years ago) but I can however point to: * Tesla produced ~250k vehicles (cumulative as of Q2 2017) prior to the first production Model 3, so it's not appropriate to compare them to a brand new company: They know how to build cars by the time Model 3 rolled around. This is their 4th vehicle model. * Tesla has stated many times how the Model 3 is a far simpler and trimmed down vehicle compared to the S or X: production should be easier. * Tesla had a goal of 2,500/wk by December 31st (they managed 793 the last week by shutting down S&X production) and a total of 2,425 for that entire quarter. * Tesla had a goal of 5,000/wk and a revised goal of 2,500/wk by March 31st but only managed to hit 2,020 by that point, again which required shutting down the S&X lines. * The new goalpost is 5,000/wk by June 30th. * Elon said that "excessive automation at Tesla was a mistake" and that "Humans are underrated". [1] If Musk himself is suggesting that the Model 3 delays would have not occurred due to human assembly instead, I think it's quite fair to compare against Ford's Model T assembly line a century ago. Not to mention a few advancements in technology since then which should give Tesla the upper hand. [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984
    - throwaway5752 8y ago
      You didn't answer any of my questions, though.
- sunstone 8y ago
  It's poor example because the Model 3 has 1000's of parts some of which have supply chains that spread around the world. The model T had 1481 parts almost all built in their factory. The model 3 is orders of magnitude more complex to the point that it's more similar to a business jet than it is to a model T. But then, you knew that.

Why is it a poor example? I'm comparing a car company that, over 100 years ago in 1914, was producing 714 vehicles a day by hand with 13,000 workers [1] to a company in 2018 with 37,000 employees utilizing robots yet manages to only produce half that amount? [1] https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbes/ford.html https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbe...

throwaway5752 8y ago
How many total employees did Ford have, total? How many of Tesla's total employees are in line work/production? How difficult is the relative assembly of a Model T vs a Model 3 (ie, how many parts, welds, fasteners, etc)? I honestly have no idea how to compare them fairly, but I am not impressed by your analysis so far.
- meritt 8y ago
  I can't speak to the relative complexity of the two machines either (obviously a Tesla is vastly more technologically complex but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more difficult to assemble: assembling computers today is extremely easy compared to 30 years ago) but I can however point to: * Tesla produced ~250k vehicles (cumulative as of Q2 2017) prior to the first production Model 3, so it's not appropriate to compare them to a brand new company: They know how to build cars by the time Model 3 rolled around. This is their 4th vehicle model. * Tesla has stated many times how the Model 3 is a far simpler and trimmed down vehicle compared to the S or X: production should be easier. * Tesla had a goal of 2,500/wk by December 31st (they managed 793 the last week by shutting down S&X production) and a total of 2,425 for that entire quarter. * Tesla had a goal of 5,000/wk and a revised goal of 2,500/wk by March 31st but only managed to hit 2,020 by that point, again which required shutting down the S&X lines. * The new goalpost is 5,000/wk by June 30th. * Elon said that "excessive automation at Tesla was a mistake" and that "Humans are underrated". [1] If Musk himself is suggesting that the Model 3 delays would have not occurred due to human assembly instead, I think it's quite fair to compare against Ford's Model T assembly line a century ago. Not to mention a few advancements in technology since then which should give Tesla the upper hand. [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984
  - throwaway5752 8y ago
    You didn't answer any of my questions, though.
sunstone 8y ago
It's poor example because the Model 3 has 1000's of parts some of which have supply chains that spread around the world. The model T had 1481 parts almost all built in their factory. The model 3 is orders of magnitude more complex to the point that it's more similar to a business jet than it is to a model T. But then, you knew that.