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Yeah, with what information the general public has, this could just as easily be spun as 'Engineering chief takes well deserved break after months of crunch suc

Yeah, with what information the general public has, this could just as easily be spun as 'Engineering chief takes well deserved break after months of crunch successfully implementing Model 3 mass production.' Even if output production isn't as high as was initially planned, doesn't mean it's a failure.

meritt 8y ago
> successfully implementing Model 3 mass production For comparison on mass production: "more than 15 million Model Ts were manufactured in all, reaching a rate of 9,000 to 10,000 cars a day in 1925, or 2 million annually" [1]. Toyota was producing 13,400 units per day in 2014. Model3 is currently somewhere around 300 to 500 per day. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T
- robbiep 8y ago
  What’s the point of the comparison? Model T manufacture started in 1908 and by the end of 1910 they had produced 12,000. By that comparison, model 3 is crushing it
  - meritt 8y ago
    Ford literally invented the assembly line. Tesla has a century of expertise to learn from. Tesla has also been producing ~2000/wk S&X's for almost two years now; however they just recently (last week of March) exceeded 2,000 3's in a week, 9 months into production.
    - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
      The Model S came out in what, 2012? So by your own numbers it took 4 years to get to 2000/wk. 9 months is killin it!
    - dpark 8y ago
      > Ford literally invented the assembly line. No, he didn’t. The assembly line existed before Ford applied it to cars.
- heurist 8y ago
  Poor examples - Ford produced only the Model T for two decades. Toyota has been around for 80 years.
  - meritt 8y ago
    Why is it a poor example? I'm comparing a car company that, over 100 years ago in 1914, was producing 714 vehicles a day by hand with 13,000 workers [1] to a company in 2018 with 37,000 employees utilizing robots yet manages to only produce half that amount? [1] https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbes/ford.html https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbe...
    - throwaway5752 8y ago
      How many total employees did Ford have, total? How many of Tesla's total employees are in line work/production? How difficult is the relative assembly of a Model T vs a Model 3 (ie, how many parts, welds, fasteners, etc)? I honestly have no idea how to compare them fairly, but I am not impressed by your analysis so far.
      - meritt 8y ago
        I can't speak to the relative complexity of the two machines either (obviously a Tesla is vastly more technologically complex but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more difficult to assemble: assembling computers today is extremely easy compared to 30 years ago) but I can however point to: * Tesla produced ~250k vehicles (cumulative as of Q2 2017) prior to the first production Model 3, so it's not appropriate to compare them to a brand new company: They know how to build cars by the time Model 3 rolled around. This is their 4th vehicle model. * Tesla has stated many times how the Model 3 is a far simpler and trimmed down vehicle compared to the S or X: production should be easier. * Tesla had a goal of 2,500/wk by December 31st (they managed 793 the last week by shutting down S&X production) and a total of 2,425 for that entire quarter. * Tesla had a goal of 5,000/wk and a revised goal of 2,500/wk by March 31st but only managed to hit 2,020 by that point, again which required shutting down the S&X lines. * The new goalpost is 5,000/wk by June 30th. * Elon said that "excessive automation at Tesla was a mistake" and that "Humans are underrated". [1] If Musk himself is suggesting that the Model 3 delays would have not occurred due to human assembly instead, I think it's quite fair to compare against Ford's Model T assembly line a century ago. Not to mention a few advancements in technology since then which should give Tesla the upper hand. [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984
Florin_Andrei 8y ago
I'm getting the impression that there's some kind of axe-grinding going on in the general region of WSJ when it comes to Elon. Not sure why. But this article definitely feels like someone just trying hard to find an angle to cast a deprecating light on Tesla. Like a "vested interests" type of feeling.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  If you don't follow US politics, most conservatives hate Tesla and the WSJ (part of News Corp) is probably the preeminent conservative paper in the country.
- kyrra 8y ago
  WSJ doesn't have great love for most silicon valley companies. In Tesla's case, I think it's their continued over promising and under delivery. Currently the high cash burn plus low production volume on the model 3. Wsj also has some nice pieces about Tesla, such as their recent tour of the production factory. https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-factory-in-a-fishbowl-1525716237 https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-factory-in-a-fishbowl-15...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - akamaka 8y ago
    I lost respect for WSJ because of their continuous anti-Tesla editorials. I’m not at all a Tesla fanboy, but the WSJ commentary on subsidies are just trashy attacks that are devoid of any logic or context, given that the help that other industries and automakers have received. For example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2015/02/16/tesla-should-turn-off-subsidies-wall-street-journal-europe-says/#662a74f45661 https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2015/02/16/tesla-sho...
    - 8y ago

meritt 8y ago

> successfully implementing Model 3 mass production For comparison on mass production: "more than 15 million Model Ts were manufactured in all, reaching a rate of 9,000 to 10,000 cars a day in 1925, or 2 million annually" [1]. Toyota was producing 13,400 units per day in 2014. Model3 is currently somewhere around 300 to 500 per day. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T

robbiep 8y ago
What’s the point of the comparison? Model T manufacture started in 1908 and by the end of 1910 they had produced 12,000. By that comparison, model 3 is crushing it
- meritt 8y ago
  Ford literally invented the assembly line. Tesla has a century of expertise to learn from. Tesla has also been producing ~2000/wk S&X's for almost two years now; however they just recently (last week of March) exceeded 2,000 3's in a week, 9 months into production.
  - TaylorAlexander 8y ago
    The Model S came out in what, 2012? So by your own numbers it took 4 years to get to 2000/wk. 9 months is killin it!
  - dpark 8y ago
    > Ford literally invented the assembly line. No, he didn’t. The assembly line existed before Ford applied it to cars.
heurist 8y ago
Poor examples - Ford produced only the Model T for two decades. Toyota has been around for 80 years.
- meritt 8y ago
  Why is it a poor example? I'm comparing a car company that, over 100 years ago in 1914, was producing 714 vehicles a day by hand with 13,000 workers [1] to a company in 2018 with 37,000 employees utilizing robots yet manages to only produce half that amount? [1] https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbes/ford.html https://www.wiley.com/legacy/products/subject/business/forbe...
  - throwaway5752 8y ago
    How many total employees did Ford have, total? How many of Tesla's total employees are in line work/production? How difficult is the relative assembly of a Model T vs a Model 3 (ie, how many parts, welds, fasteners, etc)? I honestly have no idea how to compare them fairly, but I am not impressed by your analysis so far.
    - meritt 8y ago
      I can't speak to the relative complexity of the two machines either (obviously a Tesla is vastly more technologically complex but that doesn't mean it's necessarily more difficult to assemble: assembling computers today is extremely easy compared to 30 years ago) but I can however point to: * Tesla produced ~250k vehicles (cumulative as of Q2 2017) prior to the first production Model 3, so it's not appropriate to compare them to a brand new company: They know how to build cars by the time Model 3 rolled around. This is their 4th vehicle model. * Tesla has stated many times how the Model 3 is a far simpler and trimmed down vehicle compared to the S or X: production should be easier. * Tesla had a goal of 2,500/wk by December 31st (they managed 793 the last week by shutting down S&X production) and a total of 2,425 for that entire quarter. * Tesla had a goal of 5,000/wk and a revised goal of 2,500/wk by March 31st but only managed to hit 2,020 by that point, again which required shutting down the S&X lines. * The new goalpost is 5,000/wk by June 30th. * Elon said that "excessive automation at Tesla was a mistake" and that "Humans are underrated". [1] If Musk himself is suggesting that the Model 3 delays would have not occurred due to human assembly instead, I think it's quite fair to compare against Ford's Model T assembly line a century ago. Not to mention a few advancements in technology since then which should give Tesla the upper hand. [1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/984882630947753984

Florin_Andrei 8y ago

I'm getting the impression that there's some kind of axe-grinding going on in the general region of WSJ when it comes to Elon. Not sure why. But this article definitely feels like someone just trying hard to find an angle to cast a deprecating light on Tesla. Like a "vested interests" type of feeling.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
throwaway5752 8y ago
If you don't follow US politics, most conservatives hate Tesla and the WSJ (part of News Corp) is probably the preeminent conservative paper in the country.
kyrra 8y ago
WSJ doesn't have great love for most silicon valley companies. In Tesla's case, I think it's their continued over promising and under delivery. Currently the high cash burn plus low production volume on the model 3. Wsj also has some nice pieces about Tesla, such as their recent tour of the production factory. https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-factory-in-a-fishbowl-1525716237 https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-factory-in-a-fishbowl-15...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- akamaka 8y ago
  I lost respect for WSJ because of their continuous anti-Tesla editorials. I’m not at all a Tesla fanboy, but the WSJ commentary on subsidies are just trashy attacks that are devoid of any logic or context, given that the help that other industries and automakers have received. For example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2015/02/16/tesla-should-turn-off-subsidies-wall-street-journal-europe-says/#662a74f45661 https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2015/02/16/tesla-sho...
  - 8y ago