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The thing is ML for training is much more bumpy. You need further capacity at certain times. But the other issue is you are stuck with the hardware. Google

The thing is ML for training is much more bumpy. You need further capacity at certain times. But the other issue is you are stuck with the hardware. Google just put out the TPU 3.0 and you can use them without losing all your investment if you bought your own hardware. The other is buying the hardware is much harder from a cash flow standpoint.

p1esk 8y ago
So you completely ignored my questions, and simply repeated your previous comment word for word? You provided some generic considerations, which don't apply to my situation, and I'm a fairly typical ML researcher. In fact, I know several startups doing DL research and they all have been buying hardware. Can you give me some examples where doing DL training in the cloud makes financial sense? Also, you seem to imply that TPU is some kind of a miracle chip, even though we know very little about TPU2 and we know nothing about TPU3. It's actually pretty embarrassing that a general purpose V100 GPU is competitive with TPU2, which is an ASIC made for DL. If Nvidia ever decides to make a pure DL chip it will destroy anything Google can design. I mean, you can't be serious comparing Google to Nvidia when it comes to designing chips, right? That would be like believing that Nvidia could make a competitive search engine.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  I do not know your personal use case. But if buying something makes sense then I would do it. But the future is the cloud. I have fought people on this for well over a decade and thought everyone by now got it. Apparently not. On TPU being a miracle chip not clear to me what a "miracle" chip would even be? Plus things keep improving and how could you have a static "miracle" chip? What we do know is Google is doing WaveNet in production in real-time. We can hear the results. They are offering at a competitive price to traditional TTS. We can also see the TPUs are about 1/2 the cost of using Nvidia. Otherwise that is it. But I do not know your faith but personally I would not consider that a "miracle". But maybe just me. Maybe Lewandowski would as I have heard he prays to a AI god or something like that. The big difference is Google is working top down and Nvidia has to work bottom up. So Google wants to roll out the best TTS there is to the world and at scale. So they are going to from the top down to be able to achieve. Clearly Google has a goal of creating the singularity and the Silicon is just a piece of the equation. Versus I am not really sure what Nvidia goal is. Silicon is not for silicon sake. But rather a means to an end. Plus Google having in production has the data to optimize in future versions where Nvidia just is not going to be able to. I am long Nvidia and owned it for a bit. Was disappointed on how the stock traded after ER. Do think it will do fine as Google does all these incredible AI things. It is an alternative that will be good for them. But for the very long term I would not hold. Google is a hold forever. Nvidia would keep on it. BTW, would say Nvidia is now two generations behind.
  - p1esk 8y ago
    Clearly Google has a goal of creating the singularity Oh wow. Didn't realize you're one of those. I used to be a Kurzweil fan too, when I was 18. That phase usually passes by senior year in college. Well, I guess some people need longer to see reality. I recommend cutting back on pop tech news consumption. Take it easy, and have a nice day!
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      One of those? Sorry do not know what that means? BTW, I am old as in 50s. Have to explain to me in a little more detail what you mean by your post? I am very curious but just not following?

p1esk 8y ago

So you completely ignored my questions, and simply repeated your previous comment word for word? You provided some generic considerations, which don't apply to my situation, and I'm a fairly typical ML researcher. In fact, I know several startups doing DL research and they all have been buying hardware. Can you give me some examples where doing DL training in the cloud makes financial sense? Also, you seem to imply that TPU is some kind of a miracle chip, even though we know very little about TPU2 and we know nothing about TPU3. It's actually pretty embarrassing that a general purpose V100 GPU is competitive with TPU2, which is an ASIC made for DL. If Nvidia ever decides to make a pure DL chip it will destroy anything Google can design. I mean, you can't be serious comparing Google to Nvidia when it comes to designing chips, right? That would be like believing that Nvidia could make a competitive search engine.

jacksmith21006 8y ago
I do not know your personal use case. But if buying something makes sense then I would do it. But the future is the cloud. I have fought people on this for well over a decade and thought everyone by now got it. Apparently not. On TPU being a miracle chip not clear to me what a "miracle" chip would even be? Plus things keep improving and how could you have a static "miracle" chip? What we do know is Google is doing WaveNet in production in real-time. We can hear the results. They are offering at a competitive price to traditional TTS. We can also see the TPUs are about 1/2 the cost of using Nvidia. Otherwise that is it. But I do not know your faith but personally I would not consider that a "miracle". But maybe just me. Maybe Lewandowski would as I have heard he prays to a AI god or something like that. The big difference is Google is working top down and Nvidia has to work bottom up. So Google wants to roll out the best TTS there is to the world and at scale. So they are going to from the top down to be able to achieve. Clearly Google has a goal of creating the singularity and the Silicon is just a piece of the equation. Versus I am not really sure what Nvidia goal is. Silicon is not for silicon sake. But rather a means to an end. Plus Google having in production has the data to optimize in future versions where Nvidia just is not going to be able to. I am long Nvidia and owned it for a bit. Was disappointed on how the stock traded after ER. Do think it will do fine as Google does all these incredible AI things. It is an alternative that will be good for them. But for the very long term I would not hold. Google is a hold forever. Nvidia would keep on it. BTW, would say Nvidia is now two generations behind.
- p1esk 8y ago
  Clearly Google has a goal of creating the singularity Oh wow. Didn't realize you're one of those. I used to be a Kurzweil fan too, when I was 18. That phase usually passes by senior year in college. Well, I guess some people need longer to see reality. I recommend cutting back on pop tech news consumption. Take it easy, and have a nice day!
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    One of those? Sorry do not know what that means? BTW, I am old as in 50s. Have to explain to me in a little more detail what you mean by your post? I am very curious but just not following?