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Are there any capitalist systems that don't tend towards hierarchical structures? Corporations are hierarchical to a great degree, but what would a system look

Are there any capitalist systems that don't tend towards hierarchical structures? Corporations are hierarchical to a great degree, but what would a system look like that incorporated the benefits of democracy into a capitalist entity? In a democracy, people are in theory given a level playing field through voting that means that Bill Gates's vote is just as valuable as anyone else's. In capitalism, people are given the ability to create value to their fullest extent. A single individual could find him or herself creating value outstripping that of thousands of people. Even on small teams, there are great deviations in contributed value. Capitalism is highly volatile, and I would argue the stronger and more natural system as compared to democracy. Both democracy and capitalism are capable of generating evil and tyranny. The intent of democracy is to create a foundation for a stable society in situ. I think it's very possible to create a democracy that does not progress. On the other hand, capitalism is innately progressive via market competition and trade. Technological progress and social progress seem to have an odd dance. The goal of technological progress is to create more fit capitalist entities which compete better in markets, but individual consumers are the end route fitness function. The goal of social progress is to elevate the standard of living for individuals, but it might not be easy to prove that democracy is the best known system for raising that standard of living, because so much of one's standard of living is defined by technological progress. I would argue that capitalism is a more natural system than democracy, and thus more durable. A healthy democracy is an artificial system of good, and a perfect democracy cannot exist in the real world. Again and again, democracy has shown itself flimsy during difficult times.

spiralx 8y ago
> In capitalism, people are given the ability to create value to their fullest extent. In capitalism people have the ability to create value to the extent they have the capital to do so, a requirement which excludes most people from achieving what they could.
- debacle 8y ago
  I don't mean to sound dismissive, but that's a knowledge problem. Many people have no idea how to procure capital, nor what capital procurement even entails. There are few viable routes to becoming an entrepreneur, and most people would agree that the most viable route is learning from other entrepreneurs. For me, learning how to operate a business required a lot of reading, failure, and bad decisions. For someone who has easy access to the knowledge that I had to work hard to attain, becoming successful has a much shorter path. For someone who doesn't even have a map (many people in poor or socially disadvantaged communities), it requires a level of tenacity and drive that is very rare. So while I agree with you that most people are excluded from maximizing their potential, I think the root cause is not a lack of capital, but a lack of knowledge about how to interact with capital.
  - spiralx 8y ago
    > So while I agree with you that most people are excluded from maximizing their potential, I think the root cause is not a lack of capital, but a lack of knowledge about how to interact with capital. And do you not think that this is a function of how much capital one has access to in the first place? Leaving aside the research showing how poverty affects development, those born to families with wealth will have both more knowledge of how to interact with capital and more access to capital in general. You seem to be both acknowledging that there is a stacked deck and claiming that there is a level playing field where everyone can achieve their true potential.
    - debacle 8y ago
      There is no stacked deck. No one cheated because they have business savvy parents or friends. Everyone can go to busines school, or learn things the hard way. The knowledge is there, and the people who have great enough desire find it. Teaching it universally would be a great social good.

spiralx 8y ago

> In capitalism, people are given the ability to create value to their fullest extent. In capitalism people have the ability to create value to the extent they have the capital to do so, a requirement which excludes most people from achieving what they could.

debacle 8y ago
I don't mean to sound dismissive, but that's a knowledge problem. Many people have no idea how to procure capital, nor what capital procurement even entails. There are few viable routes to becoming an entrepreneur, and most people would agree that the most viable route is learning from other entrepreneurs. For me, learning how to operate a business required a lot of reading, failure, and bad decisions. For someone who has easy access to the knowledge that I had to work hard to attain, becoming successful has a much shorter path. For someone who doesn't even have a map (many people in poor or socially disadvantaged communities), it requires a level of tenacity and drive that is very rare. So while I agree with you that most people are excluded from maximizing their potential, I think the root cause is not a lack of capital, but a lack of knowledge about how to interact with capital.
- spiralx 8y ago
  > So while I agree with you that most people are excluded from maximizing their potential, I think the root cause is not a lack of capital, but a lack of knowledge about how to interact with capital. And do you not think that this is a function of how much capital one has access to in the first place? Leaving aside the research showing how poverty affects development, those born to families with wealth will have both more knowledge of how to interact with capital and more access to capital in general. You seem to be both acknowledging that there is a stacked deck and claiming that there is a level playing field where everyone can achieve their true potential.
  - debacle 8y ago
    There is no stacked deck. No one cheated because they have business savvy parents or friends. Everyone can go to busines school, or learn things the hard way. The knowledge is there, and the people who have great enough desire find it. Teaching it universally would be a great social good.