5 ms·

Sorry, America was a republic centuries before Turkey and doesn't have the same authoritarian cultural tradition.

untog 8y ago
True, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of the US sliding into a more authoritarian regime. The President is given a surprising amount of power, all things considered. Of course, it sounds vaguely hysterical to bring this up in the era of Trump, but if there's one thing he's proved inconclusively it's that the US political system depends on polite adherence to tradition over hard and fast rules a lot more than many of us thought.
cruftyold 8y ago
Cultures change, governments change. The United States has different values, and cultures, and government history; but they are two sides of the same coin. The mythology of the meritocracy of the great "American Republic" is pretty hard to defend in a post 9/11 world. Listening to Republicans glow about Donald and hide his flaws is like listening to Kemalists glow about Ataturk or AKP-supporters rave about Tayipp. Here is what I see as the very striking similarities which are already equal or rapidly equalizing: - Single-man rule. (In both systems decrees are almost limitless and have replaced the legislation process. In the US it's DNC/NRA^WGOP, in Turkey it's the coalition of CHP&&CHP&&IYI vs the AKP&&MHP coalition. When representatives always vote down party lines, then you really have single man rule. - Active war against the press. America is just a few years behind this, and this article itself is a sign that Trump is emulating Putin and Erdogan. This isn't just a Trump thing, Obama's administration did the same, but just more quietly - Religion being respected and advocated by the government - Constant pro-war/support our troops rhetoric - Rapidly increasing display of flags and patriotic slogans - Unwarranted search and seizure - Endless state of emergency (you call it the PATRIOT act) - Violent crackdowns on protestors, supporting nationalists who attack/murder said protestors. Compare the AKP patriots in the Gezi protests to Trump's "Very fine, very nice people" in Charleston Really, you won't notice it until you're too late, and if you support the ruling power, then you probably will never notice it, especially if you profit from it. The only real difference I see is that Tayipp wants conservative Islam to be the primary value of the "republic", and Trump wants it to be business (but is happy to give almost unlimited power to Evangelicals). Different authoritarian styles, but still authoritarian. Any semblance of democracy ended the day the PATRIOT act was signed.
logfromblammo 8y ago
No tradition can survive beyond the lifespan of a man, unless it is passed down to the children. The ones who voted in 2016 are not children of the revolution. They aren't even children of the children of the revolution. They grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school, and standing for the national anthem before every sporting event. It isn't the same authoritarian cultural tradition, but America is very authoritarian at the median. It thankfully retains a long, fat, and largely disorganized tail pointing towards libertarian, that moderates the laws and policies that are able to be enacted. Even now, some people clamor for censorship, establishment of religion, restrictions on the press, gun control, expanded police powers, punishments without due process, abolition of the electoral college, for-profit prison labor, etc. There isn't a right crucial to liberty that some number of Americans isn't shouting to repeal and abolish. But they don't have the votes. Not yet. More voters are being born every day, and they are being taught to believe in certain things, so they will vote their beliefs when they grow to voting age. It can happen here. It can all fall apart within a single generation.

True, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of the US sliding into a more authoritarian regime. The President is given a surprising amount of power, all things considered. Of course, it sounds vaguely hysterical to bring this up in the era of Trump, but if there's one thing he's proved inconclusively it's that the US political system depends on polite adherence to tradition over hard and fast rules a lot more than many of us thought.

cruftyold 8y ago

Cultures change, governments change. The United States has different values, and cultures, and government history; but they are two sides of the same coin. The mythology of the meritocracy of the great "American Republic" is pretty hard to defend in a post 9/11 world. Listening to Republicans glow about Donald and hide his flaws is like listening to Kemalists glow about Ataturk or AKP-supporters rave about Tayipp. Here is what I see as the very striking similarities which are already equal or rapidly equalizing: - Single-man rule. (In both systems decrees are almost limitless and have replaced the legislation process. In the US it's DNC/NRA^WGOP, in Turkey it's the coalition of CHP&&CHP&&IYI vs the AKP&&MHP coalition. When representatives always vote down party lines, then you really have single man rule. - Active war against the press. America is just a few years behind this, and this article itself is a sign that Trump is emulating Putin and Erdogan. This isn't just a Trump thing, Obama's administration did the same, but just more quietly - Religion being respected and advocated by the government - Constant pro-war/support our troops rhetoric - Rapidly increasing display of flags and patriotic slogans - Unwarranted search and seizure - Endless state of emergency (you call it the PATRIOT act) - Violent crackdowns on protestors, supporting nationalists who attack/murder said protestors. Compare the AKP patriots in the Gezi protests to Trump's "Very fine, very nice people" in Charleston Really, you won't notice it until you're too late, and if you support the ruling power, then you probably will never notice it, especially if you profit from it. The only real difference I see is that Tayipp wants conservative Islam to be the primary value of the "republic", and Trump wants it to be business (but is happy to give almost unlimited power to Evangelicals). Different authoritarian styles, but still authoritarian. Any semblance of democracy ended the day the PATRIOT act was signed.

logfromblammo 8y ago

No tradition can survive beyond the lifespan of a man, unless it is passed down to the children. The ones who voted in 2016 are not children of the revolution. They aren't even children of the children of the revolution. They grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school, and standing for the national anthem before every sporting event. It isn't the same authoritarian cultural tradition, but America is very authoritarian at the median. It thankfully retains a long, fat, and largely disorganized tail pointing towards libertarian, that moderates the laws and policies that are able to be enacted. Even now, some people clamor for censorship, establishment of religion, restrictions on the press, gun control, expanded police powers, punishments without due process, abolition of the electoral college, for-profit prison labor, etc. There isn't a right crucial to liberty that some number of Americans isn't shouting to repeal and abolish. But they don't have the votes. Not yet. More voters are being born every day, and they are being taught to believe in certain things, so they will vote their beliefs when they grow to voting age. It can happen here. It can all fall apart within a single generation.