5 ms·

I really struggled to read this. It's so dense, in an almost impenetrable way. Am I the only one? I did some skimming, but never seemed to catch on.

mhax 8y ago
Yeah, it's a struggle. I've attempted to read it twice, and never made it all the way through. Still immensely rewarding though.
modernerd 8y ago
It's not just you. I often see it cited in must-read lists, but also found it rambling and impenetrable. In the 20th anniversary edition I have, the author spends the full preface admitting as much by explaining that people who've reviewed the book don't seem to understand its message: “Needless to say, this widespread confusion has been quite frustrating to me over the years, since I felt sure I had spelled out my aims over and over in the text itself. Clearly, however, I didn't do it sufficiently often, or sufficiently clearly.” He then attempts to outline the principle thesis: “…GEB is a very personal attempt to say how it is that animate beings can come out of inanimate matter.” “Very personal” is right — the book reads like a fever dream of tangential scribbled notes compiled into an ~800 page tome, only loosely coupled to the notion of how animate things come to be. It is still interesting and brilliant and challenging and worth skimming if not reading in its entirety, but do not expect it to be instantly enlightening or full of take-aways.
raaxe 8y ago
That'll be why you found it so hard. It's not really a book you can 'skim through' at all, but if you pay attention, maybe take some notes and reread the sections you may be having trouble with, you'll start to get the idea. The great thing about GEB is that Hofstadter basically assumes no prior knowledge from the beginning of the book - he just asks that you pay close attention and exercise your analytical mind. You'll then soon start to notice the patterns, jokes and puzzles in the writing, and how they all relate very closely to the ideas presented in the book. Note: the book isn't necessarily out to prove anything, and if you're looking for a massive 'aha!' moment towards the end of the book, you'll probably be disappointed. It's just an incredible journey down the recursive rabbit-hole that ties together mathematics, formal logic, linguistics, biology, computer science and loads more all through the extremely deliberate use of language throughout. It still blows my mind, but requires a good amount of concentration, re-reading and note-taking - which seems fair enough as I can't even imagine how long it took Hofstadter to write!
- modernerd 8y ago
  “You're reading it wrong” seems like a questionable defense of any book to me, in the same way that “you're tasting that broccoli wrong” and “you're listening to Paganini incorrectly” might be. I only mention this because it hurts to see people waste weeks of their lives trying to appreciate something under duress (be it literature, music, art) or under the belief that the fault is with them rather than simply accepting their lack of any natural affinity for the thing they are studying. Sometimes it is worth working to appreciate things that are alien to you to stretch the mind, but other times it's perfectly fine to accept that a cultural artefact just might not be for you; that there is nothing wrong with the way you have been consuming it. It frees you to move on and find something new.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - raaxe 8y ago
    I'm not arguing that OP was 'reading the book wrong', just sharing my experience reading it myself. I personally found it pretty rewarding though challenging, I'm just sharing my experience. I found that taking notes and re-reading sections (along with talking to other people who have read/were reading the book) helped clear up some of the ideas in my head. If somebody gives it a go and decides it's not a book that they're interested in - that's fine, it's not my job to pressure you if you find it doesn't resonate with you personally.
  - projectileboy 8y ago
    I totally agree. I don't think anyone should read, watch, or listen to something because some other group of people defined it as great. I will say, though, that if a sizable group of people define something as "great", you might at least be curious and give it a chance. I took a music appreciation class during a January term in college, and it really opened up the world of classical music for me, and I think my life has been better for it.
Y_Y 8y ago
It took me about five years of slog, but was at the same time a constant joy and absolutely worth it.
bottled_poe 8y ago
It is dense, but if you want something a bit lighter: slaughthouse 5, hitchhikers guide, a confederacy of Dunces. All great reads with insightful thoughts on life.
bambataa 8y ago
It’s the kind of book you need to sit down and deliberately read for a while, rather than snatched moments here and there or while waiting for something else. Personally I found it very informative and interesting - though not ‘enlightening’. I did stop reading it for a while and found it difficult to pick up the thread again though.

mhax 8y ago

Yeah, it's a struggle. I've attempted to read it twice, and never made it all the way through. Still immensely rewarding though.

modernerd 8y ago

It's not just you. I often see it cited in must-read lists, but also found it rambling and impenetrable. In the 20th anniversary edition I have, the author spends the full preface admitting as much by explaining that people who've reviewed the book don't seem to understand its message: “Needless to say, this widespread confusion has been quite frustrating to me over the years, since I felt sure I had spelled out my aims over and over in the text itself. Clearly, however, I didn't do it sufficiently often, or sufficiently clearly.” He then attempts to outline the principle thesis: “…GEB is a very personal attempt to say how it is that animate beings can come out of inanimate matter.” “Very personal” is right — the book reads like a fever dream of tangential scribbled notes compiled into an ~800 page tome, only loosely coupled to the notion of how animate things come to be. It is still interesting and brilliant and challenging and worth skimming if not reading in its entirety, but do not expect it to be instantly enlightening or full of take-aways.

raaxe 8y ago

That'll be why you found it so hard. It's not really a book you can 'skim through' at all, but if you pay attention, maybe take some notes and reread the sections you may be having trouble with, you'll start to get the idea. The great thing about GEB is that Hofstadter basically assumes no prior knowledge from the beginning of the book - he just asks that you pay close attention and exercise your analytical mind. You'll then soon start to notice the patterns, jokes and puzzles in the writing, and how they all relate very closely to the ideas presented in the book. Note: the book isn't necessarily out to prove anything, and if you're looking for a massive 'aha!' moment towards the end of the book, you'll probably be disappointed. It's just an incredible journey down the recursive rabbit-hole that ties together mathematics, formal logic, linguistics, biology, computer science and loads more all through the extremely deliberate use of language throughout. It still blows my mind, but requires a good amount of concentration, re-reading and note-taking - which seems fair enough as I can't even imagine how long it took Hofstadter to write!

modernerd 8y ago
“You're reading it wrong” seems like a questionable defense of any book to me, in the same way that “you're tasting that broccoli wrong” and “you're listening to Paganini incorrectly” might be. I only mention this because it hurts to see people waste weeks of their lives trying to appreciate something under duress (be it literature, music, art) or under the belief that the fault is with them rather than simply accepting their lack of any natural affinity for the thing they are studying. Sometimes it is worth working to appreciate things that are alien to you to stretch the mind, but other times it's perfectly fine to accept that a cultural artefact just might not be for you; that there is nothing wrong with the way you have been consuming it. It frees you to move on and find something new.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- raaxe 8y ago
  I'm not arguing that OP was 'reading the book wrong', just sharing my experience reading it myself. I personally found it pretty rewarding though challenging, I'm just sharing my experience. I found that taking notes and re-reading sections (along with talking to other people who have read/were reading the book) helped clear up some of the ideas in my head. If somebody gives it a go and decides it's not a book that they're interested in - that's fine, it's not my job to pressure you if you find it doesn't resonate with you personally.
- projectileboy 8y ago
  I totally agree. I don't think anyone should read, watch, or listen to something because some other group of people defined it as great. I will say, though, that if a sizable group of people define something as "great", you might at least be curious and give it a chance. I took a music appreciation class during a January term in college, and it really opened up the world of classical music for me, and I think my life has been better for it.

Y_Y 8y ago

It took me about five years of slog, but was at the same time a constant joy and absolutely worth it.

bottled_poe 8y ago

It is dense, but if you want something a bit lighter: slaughthouse 5, hitchhikers guide, a confederacy of Dunces. All great reads with insightful thoughts on life.

bambataa 8y ago

It’s the kind of book you need to sit down and deliberately read for a while, rather than snatched moments here and there or while waiting for something else. Personally I found it very informative and interesting - though not ‘enlightening’. I did stop reading it for a while and found it difficult to pick up the thread again though.