9 ms·

I highly recommend 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. This book gave me the courage to take responsibility in my life and start working towards things wh

I highly recommend 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. This book gave me the courage to take responsibility in my life and start working towards things which are important for myself. As the author once said, you don't get not to pay a price, you only get what price to pay. It actually gave me the courage to leave Berlin and go back to my country(Romania) which even though is more poor and low in quality of public services, my friends and family are there and they are a priority for me right now. It also thought me to make small changes in my every day life even though is something as small as cleaning my room. And these small changes give me enough confidence to pursue bigger ones like quitting smoking for good.

philangist 8y ago
I loved the message of self-reliance and "bearing your burden" in the book personally, it really reminded me of Mark Manson's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. Could've done without all the religious metaphor but I understand the point of it being there.
- zuzuleinen 8y ago
  Yes, I could have done without the religious metaphor as well, I hope some potential readers will not be put off by this because it really is a great book. Something stayed with me after reading this book and I'm so glad I didn't give up when reading about too many religious analogies. Peterson also gave a presentation about his book for those who are interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RCmu-HuTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RCmu-HuTg
- hudon 8y ago
  If you want to understand why he uses religion so much as I did (I've always considered myself an atheist), his lecture series here goes into it in much greater depth: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I3lUrrFTzkpat https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I... He's dedicated his life in trying to explain why the atrocities of the 20th century happened and how they can be prevented. I believe he sees our rejection of religion as part of the problem but he understands that the way religion has been presented in modern times (last few centuries) is completely alienating given the rise of science. So he uses science to attempt to give a new meaning to the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of western society. I'd say the biggest precursors to his work are Darwin and Carl Jung.
  - Letmesleep69 8y ago
    > He's dedicated his life in trying to explain why the atrocities of the 20th century happened Looking at what he published it seems he dedicated most of his life to researching the effects of alcoholism. Also would you mind expanding on how he uses science to give new meaning to the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of Western society?
    - hudon 8y ago
      > Also would you mind expanding on how he uses science to give new meaning to the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of Western society? The first lecture should give you a good idea, but if you're looking for discussion, I'd be willing to have it but we'd be here for hours. We'd have to get into philosophy and define terms like "science", "God", "society", etc. We'd then have to explore psychology and models of consciousness, like Jungian archetypes and Freud's subconscious. We could also cover biology and how some substances trigger spiritual experiences that have positive life-changing effects. All the while, we could relate these discussions to the stories of the Bible or chapters of the Tao Te Ching and why they are both at the very least profound and contagious.
      - Letmesleep69 8y ago
        I'll give the lecture a watch. I am more interested in how he approaches the subject. I've had my doubts out Peterson for a while since some of his views seem very regressive, however I haven't watched everything he has said.
        dev_256 8y ago
        I like you. Most of the people criticizing him didn’t bother to watch his lectures or read the book and still act like they know him.
  - perseusprime11 8y ago
    But still that means he wants to believe in something that does not exist. The fact that we depend on God and religion is what actually takes our sight out of what is right in front of us which is family, kids, neighbors, little things, etc. Why do we need to attribute these things to God? Can’t we all be nice to each other without God?
- king_panic 8y ago
  He reframes religion (specifically Christianity and the Bible) as a symbolic guide to living as opposed to a historical text that should be taken at face value. i.e. God is a symbol for the greatest good. Christ is a symbol for the human ideal of that greatest good. In his view, the value of the Bible is not as a pre-scientific historical account of the world. Instead, it's a survival guide for generations of people (who had no concept of science anyway) told in story form. When I look at his religious metaphors in that light, they seem relevant and meaningful in the context of his 12 Rules.
  - phaus 8y ago
    How does viewing God and Christ as symbols for the greatest good make sense? If they existed and were anything remotely resembling what the Old and New Testaments describe they were incredibly immoral and psychopathic at various times. I think we stand to learn quite a bit from reading the Christian bible, but I didn't walk away feeling like anyone should emulate the behavior on display.
moretai 8y ago
You remember how Ryan Holiday got pretty famous quite a while back? I like Jordan Peterson, but I fear that he's the same kind of phenomenon. He's just curating all these sources, and we view him as a genius and a pancea for our anxiety ridden young adults.
- taeric 8y ago
  Nothing wrong with curating sources, is there? Yes, in large he is sharing his learnings from studying old sources. Mostly religious. Not all Christian. But mostly. I think he would be delighted if he got more people to go to the sources. I could, of course, be wrong.
  - moretai 8y ago
    Not neccessarily anything wrong with him. It's just our tendency to flock to these figures to the answers of our problems, and perhaps they fix a couple people for a five year span, but a new generation washes in, and another guy will get his shine. Information doesn't fix anything. He's just cashing in.
    - kelukelugames 8y ago
      Another commenter said Peterson is not an empty self-help guru. I suspect the only difference between the "real deal" and an "empty self-help guru" is how much we like the person.
      - moretai 8y ago
        I suspect that there are no real deals out there at all. Or if they are out there, they aren't writing books about it or recording youtube videos to redpill us.
    - taeric 8y ago
      This comment is leaving me with some pause. Quite frankly, I didn't even know the name of the author, and would have stared at anyone blankly that said it. Still would, oddly. I did enjoy his reading of his book. And I will admit that I found some of the ideas more compelling than I would have thought seeing them on paper. In particular, the religious overtones are somewhat offputting to me, on paper. Will see how I feel about them after a few day's reflection. To the point of this post, however. If he his being pushed as a savior of some sort, I agree that is misguided. However, based on their merits, many of the arguments were compelling and I'm interested to see where they can be taken. So, to that end, I'm not sure what the criticism "he's just cashing in" has to do offer here. What, exactly, are you accusing him of? Successfully presenting his arguments? Is that really such a bad thing?
taeric 8y ago
I just finished the audible of this. The emotion in his voice for some of the more laden sections was tough. I confess I was almost in treats for the section of his daughter's health. I have not reformulated my understanding of the rules. Definitely plan to. Regardless, I second all you put here. Good luck on your decisions!
dfsegoat 8y ago
Life changing and powerful. Simply no other book will make you as introspective as this. IMO The next closest thing - in terms of creating introspection - is a psychedelic / psychotropic experience with accompanying ego-death [1]. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death
gadders 8y ago
I like the principles in the book, but it could have been edited down to about a 1/3rd the length. It reads like transcriptions of his lectures, rather than something intended to be prose.
pulkitsh1234 8y ago
For some reason I am repulsive towards 'self-help' books. I always have a feeling that you just cannot sum up all the things to be "happy" or "content" or whatever in one book. I have seen numerous people who read inspirational quotes/books but the act the opposite way. I feel it is very difficult to change how the internals of a person work, reading a book will definitely push you in the right direction, motivate you, elate you, change your mental models[0]. But to bring those changes in your actual life, seems quite difficult and time consuming. Can your "mental model" be modified just by reading 1-2 books ? I am interested to know, how often when you face a situation, you stop and think, oh I read this and that in a book, I should act this way instead of my natural intuition to do the other way. Given the limited experience with life I have and the fact that I haven't read any of the self-help books, I am willing to change my perspective regarding this. Will give a shot to '12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos.' [0] => "It’s Okay to “Forget” What You Read" https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/its-okay-to-forget-what-you-read-f4ef1c34cc01 https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/its-okay-to-forget-w...
- petra 8y ago
  >> I am interested to know, how often when you face a situation, you stop and think, oh I read this and that in a book, I should act this way instead of my natural intuition to do the other way. This of course won't work. But reading a book, finding a usefull tool in it, and practicing it until it become a part of your skills is possible.
  - larntz 8y ago
    This is absolutely true. The way to change behavior is to actually change something and consistently practice that change. It requires a great deal of commitment. Progress is generally slow. Set backs happen. But if you actually change something and make it a diligent practice eventually it will be part of who you are. There are a huge amount of people that read/share/talk about feel good life change quotes/books/etc that are doing nothing more than playing psychological tricks on themselves while avoiding the hard discouragingly long process that is required to make actual changes.
- 8y ago
pc2g4d 8y ago
I'll add a recommendation for the condensed audio version of "Maps of Meaning" available on his podcast. From Amazon's blurb on the book: "A cutting-edge work that brings together neuropsychology, cognitive science, and Freudian and Jungian approaches to mythology and narrative, Maps of Meaning presents a rich theory that makes the wisdom and meaning of myth accessible to the critical modern mind."
sarabande 8y ago
This book was not worth the hype for me; I read the whole thing, but regret purchasing it. - It sorely needed an editor. Echoing other's sentiments, it could have been < 1/3 of its length. The writing style was rambling, overly emphatic, and arguments were often not coherent. - It used a gratuitous amount of Bible quotes, which 1. weren't necessary to make his point, 2. were often referenced as if they were data, and how people actually behave, rather than anecdotes/fiction I got suckered into to buying the book because the author is a compelling public speaker. I enjoy his lectures. In retrospect, though, part of what makes him a compelling public speaker are his highly emotional arguments, which don't seem to be founded on great reasoning, and therefore make for a bad book, since we have more time to be critical about arguments when reading.
- Balgair 8y ago
  Peterson is very good at speaking and lecturing (practice makes perfect!) and I enjoy his work. That said, his tack is largely an updated stoic philosophy. A good idea, don't get me wrong. Still, if you liked his book, I'd go back and read more about stoicism. Here are some suggestion, but if anyone else has others, please chime in: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Thrift-Editions-Marcus-Aurelius/dp/048629823X https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Thrift-Editions-Marcus-Au... https://www.amazon.com/Senecas-Letters-Stoic-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486811247/ref=pd_sim_14_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0486811247&pd_rd_r=MY1XXP4DKN8QNDBGPYMR&pd_rd_w=bcmaG&pd_rd_wg=LyiNS&psc=1&refRID=MY1XXP4DKN8QNDBGPYMR https://www.amazon.com/Senecas-Letters-Stoic-Thrift-Editions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
  - jonnybgood 8y ago
    > updated stoic philosophy No, it's not. Stoicism has much more depth and the Stoics would not agree with Peterson on many things. Stoicism also doesn't need to be updated.
    - Balgair 8y ago
      I mean, his 12 points are pretty stock Stoicism, with a 21st century spin. By my reading, he's not entirely stoicism, true, but he sits in the adjacent seat. If he is this popular with (as I see it) his re-skinned stoicism, then the conclusion that 'stoicism needed an update' is not unreasonable, as it seems to resonate better with the re-skin than without. Caveats, obviously, apply.
sireat 8y ago
12 Rules for Life reads like a skilled astrologer would write: many vague clouded truisms, lots of exceptions, covers pretty much all bases. No wonder people are getting insights out of the book. It is practically impossible not to!

philangist 8y ago

I loved the message of self-reliance and "bearing your burden" in the book personally, it really reminded me of Mark Manson's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. Could've done without all the religious metaphor but I understand the point of it being there.

zuzuleinen 8y ago
Yes, I could have done without the religious metaphor as well, I hope some potential readers will not be put off by this because it really is a great book. Something stayed with me after reading this book and I'm so glad I didn't give up when reading about too many religious analogies. Peterson also gave a presentation about his book for those who are interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RCmu-HuTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5RCmu-HuTg
hudon 8y ago
If you want to understand why he uses religion so much as I did (I've always considered myself an atheist), his lecture series here goes into it in much greater depth: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I3lUrrFTzkpat https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQD_IZs7y60I... He's dedicated his life in trying to explain why the atrocities of the 20th century happened and how they can be prevented. I believe he sees our rejection of religion as part of the problem but he understands that the way religion has been presented in modern times (last few centuries) is completely alienating given the rise of science. So he uses science to attempt to give a new meaning to the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of western society. I'd say the biggest precursors to his work are Darwin and Carl Jung.
- Letmesleep69 8y ago
  > He's dedicated his life in trying to explain why the atrocities of the 20th century happened Looking at what he published it seems he dedicated most of his life to researching the effects of alcoholism. Also would you mind expanding on how he uses science to give new meaning to the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of Western society?
  - hudon 8y ago
    > Also would you mind expanding on how he uses science to give new meaning to the Judeo-Christian underpinnings of Western society? The first lecture should give you a good idea, but if you're looking for discussion, I'd be willing to have it but we'd be here for hours. We'd have to get into philosophy and define terms like "science", "God", "society", etc. We'd then have to explore psychology and models of consciousness, like Jungian archetypes and Freud's subconscious. We could also cover biology and how some substances trigger spiritual experiences that have positive life-changing effects. All the while, we could relate these discussions to the stories of the Bible or chapters of the Tao Te Ching and why they are both at the very least profound and contagious.
    - Letmesleep69 8y ago
      I'll give the lecture a watch. I am more interested in how he approaches the subject. I've had my doubts out Peterson for a while since some of his views seem very regressive, however I haven't watched everything he has said.
      - dev_256 8y ago
        I like you. Most of the people criticizing him didn’t bother to watch his lectures or read the book and still act like they know him.
- perseusprime11 8y ago
  But still that means he wants to believe in something that does not exist. The fact that we depend on God and religion is what actually takes our sight out of what is right in front of us which is family, kids, neighbors, little things, etc. Why do we need to attribute these things to God? Can’t we all be nice to each other without God?
king_panic 8y ago
He reframes religion (specifically Christianity and the Bible) as a symbolic guide to living as opposed to a historical text that should be taken at face value. i.e. God is a symbol for the greatest good. Christ is a symbol for the human ideal of that greatest good. In his view, the value of the Bible is not as a pre-scientific historical account of the world. Instead, it's a survival guide for generations of people (who had no concept of science anyway) told in story form. When I look at his religious metaphors in that light, they seem relevant and meaningful in the context of his 12 Rules.
- phaus 8y ago
  How does viewing God and Christ as symbols for the greatest good make sense? If they existed and were anything remotely resembling what the Old and New Testaments describe they were incredibly immoral and psychopathic at various times. I think we stand to learn quite a bit from reading the Christian bible, but I didn't walk away feeling like anyone should emulate the behavior on display.

moretai 8y ago

You remember how Ryan Holiday got pretty famous quite a while back? I like Jordan Peterson, but I fear that he's the same kind of phenomenon. He's just curating all these sources, and we view him as a genius and a pancea for our anxiety ridden young adults.

taeric 8y ago
Nothing wrong with curating sources, is there? Yes, in large he is sharing his learnings from studying old sources. Mostly religious. Not all Christian. But mostly. I think he would be delighted if he got more people to go to the sources. I could, of course, be wrong.
- moretai 8y ago
  Not neccessarily anything wrong with him. It's just our tendency to flock to these figures to the answers of our problems, and perhaps they fix a couple people for a five year span, but a new generation washes in, and another guy will get his shine. Information doesn't fix anything. He's just cashing in.
  - kelukelugames 8y ago
    Another commenter said Peterson is not an empty self-help guru. I suspect the only difference between the "real deal" and an "empty self-help guru" is how much we like the person.
    - moretai 8y ago
      I suspect that there are no real deals out there at all. Or if they are out there, they aren't writing books about it or recording youtube videos to redpill us.
  - taeric 8y ago
    This comment is leaving me with some pause. Quite frankly, I didn't even know the name of the author, and would have stared at anyone blankly that said it. Still would, oddly. I did enjoy his reading of his book. And I will admit that I found some of the ideas more compelling than I would have thought seeing them on paper. In particular, the religious overtones are somewhat offputting to me, on paper. Will see how I feel about them after a few day's reflection. To the point of this post, however. If he his being pushed as a savior of some sort, I agree that is misguided. However, based on their merits, many of the arguments were compelling and I'm interested to see where they can be taken. So, to that end, I'm not sure what the criticism "he's just cashing in" has to do offer here. What, exactly, are you accusing him of? Successfully presenting his arguments? Is that really such a bad thing?

taeric 8y ago

I just finished the audible of this. The emotion in his voice for some of the more laden sections was tough. I confess I was almost in treats for the section of his daughter's health. I have not reformulated my understanding of the rules. Definitely plan to. Regardless, I second all you put here. Good luck on your decisions!

dfsegoat 8y ago

Life changing and powerful. Simply no other book will make you as introspective as this. IMO The next closest thing - in terms of creating introspection - is a psychedelic / psychotropic experience with accompanying ego-death [1]. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

gadders 8y ago

I like the principles in the book, but it could have been edited down to about a 1/3rd the length. It reads like transcriptions of his lectures, rather than something intended to be prose.

pulkitsh1234 8y ago

For some reason I am repulsive towards 'self-help' books. I always have a feeling that you just cannot sum up all the things to be "happy" or "content" or whatever in one book. I have seen numerous people who read inspirational quotes/books but the act the opposite way. I feel it is very difficult to change how the internals of a person work, reading a book will definitely push you in the right direction, motivate you, elate you, change your mental models[0]. But to bring those changes in your actual life, seems quite difficult and time consuming. Can your "mental model" be modified just by reading 1-2 books ? I am interested to know, how often when you face a situation, you stop and think, oh I read this and that in a book, I should act this way instead of my natural intuition to do the other way. Given the limited experience with life I have and the fact that I haven't read any of the self-help books, I am willing to change my perspective regarding this. Will give a shot to '12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos.' [0] => "It’s Okay to “Forget” What You Read" https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/its-okay-to-forget-what-you-read-f4ef1c34cc01 https://medium.com/the-polymath-project/its-okay-to-forget-w...

petra 8y ago
>> I am interested to know, how often when you face a situation, you stop and think, oh I read this and that in a book, I should act this way instead of my natural intuition to do the other way. This of course won't work. But reading a book, finding a usefull tool in it, and practicing it until it become a part of your skills is possible.
- larntz 8y ago
  This is absolutely true. The way to change behavior is to actually change something and consistently practice that change. It requires a great deal of commitment. Progress is generally slow. Set backs happen. But if you actually change something and make it a diligent practice eventually it will be part of who you are. There are a huge amount of people that read/share/talk about feel good life change quotes/books/etc that are doing nothing more than playing psychological tricks on themselves while avoiding the hard discouragingly long process that is required to make actual changes.
8y ago

pc2g4d 8y ago

I'll add a recommendation for the condensed audio version of "Maps of Meaning" available on his podcast. From Amazon's blurb on the book: "A cutting-edge work that brings together neuropsychology, cognitive science, and Freudian and Jungian approaches to mythology and narrative, Maps of Meaning presents a rich theory that makes the wisdom and meaning of myth accessible to the critical modern mind."

sarabande 8y ago

This book was not worth the hype for me; I read the whole thing, but regret purchasing it. - It sorely needed an editor. Echoing other's sentiments, it could have been < 1/3 of its length. The writing style was rambling, overly emphatic, and arguments were often not coherent. - It used a gratuitous amount of Bible quotes, which 1. weren't necessary to make his point, 2. were often referenced as if they were data, and how people actually behave, rather than anecdotes/fiction I got suckered into to buying the book because the author is a compelling public speaker. I enjoy his lectures. In retrospect, though, part of what makes him a compelling public speaker are his highly emotional arguments, which don't seem to be founded on great reasoning, and therefore make for a bad book, since we have more time to be critical about arguments when reading.

Balgair 8y ago
Peterson is very good at speaking and lecturing (practice makes perfect!) and I enjoy his work. That said, his tack is largely an updated stoic philosophy. A good idea, don't get me wrong. Still, if you liked his book, I'd go back and read more about stoicism. Here are some suggestion, but if anyone else has others, please chime in: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Thrift-Editions-Marcus-Aurelius/dp/048629823X https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Thrift-Editions-Marcus-Au... https://www.amazon.com/Senecas-Letters-Stoic-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486811247/ref=pd_sim_14_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0486811247&pd_rd_r=MY1XXP4DKN8QNDBGPYMR&pd_rd_w=bcmaG&pd_rd_wg=LyiNS&psc=1&refRID=MY1XXP4DKN8QNDBGPYMR https://www.amazon.com/Senecas-Letters-Stoic-Thrift-Editions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
- jonnybgood 8y ago
  > updated stoic philosophy No, it's not. Stoicism has much more depth and the Stoics would not agree with Peterson on many things. Stoicism also doesn't need to be updated.
  - Balgair 8y ago
    I mean, his 12 points are pretty stock Stoicism, with a 21st century spin. By my reading, he's not entirely stoicism, true, but he sits in the adjacent seat. If he is this popular with (as I see it) his re-skinned stoicism, then the conclusion that 'stoicism needed an update' is not unreasonable, as it seems to resonate better with the re-skin than without. Caveats, obviously, apply.

sireat 8y ago

12 Rules for Life reads like a skilled astrologer would write: many vague clouded truisms, lots of exceptions, covers pretty much all bases. No wonder people are getting insights out of the book. It is practically impossible not to!