5 ms·

From memory (I’ll try to dig up the report) the officer on deck: - Was going too fast for the number of ships in the area - Did not call the captain when near

From memory (I’ll try to dig up the report) the officer on deck: - Was going too fast for the number of ships in the area - Did not call the captain when nearish other ships as procedure required. - Had in fact gotten too close to several other ships that night. - Gotten confused between which of two ships was where - Did the calculations wrong on the closest approach of the collision vessel - Denied a request to change course away from the collision vessel because then she would have to recalculate a new nearest approach distance - When a collision was clearly in the future, did not contact the other vessel in any way - Gave a late turn order, but then immediately countermanded it, keeping the ship on collision course - spent the rest of the time until the collision freaking out (an enlisted man eventually gave the final turn order that saved some lives) So it was about as bad as could be, and seven men died. However, I have a feeling the Captain's court martial is going to turn out worse for him than this.

ComradeTaco 8y ago
I'm curious what hour of her day the deck officer was on and how many hours of sleep she had the night previous. At some point, sleep deprivation can leave you essentially non-functional.
- tcj_phx 8y ago
  I've heard that female sailors are injected with Depo-Provera, to protect them from getting knocked up... Some women can tolerate this drug, while others are maimed [0]. Progesterone is now known to be a brain hormone. Medroxyprogesterone (brand name: Provera) is a good imposter-progesterone. It's useful for suppressing ovulation, but doesn't function like the endogenous hormone. [0] https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2016/08/i-wouldnt-recommend-it-to-anyone-depo-provera/ https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2016/08/i-wouldnt-recomme... edit: They must use all types, not just Provera, but certainly they emphasize the options that don't require a daily pill - the implant, IUD, Depo-Provera, etc. http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=100091 http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=100091
- chx 8y ago
  According to official report https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4165320/USS-Fitzgerald-and-USS-John-S-McCain-Collision.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4165320/USS-Fitzg... it played a part for sure: 8.4 Fatigue The command leadership allowed the schedule of events preceding the collision to fatigue the crew. The command leadership failed to assess the risks of fatigue and implement mitigation measures to ensure adequate crew rest.
  - dTal 8y ago
    Here is a very scathing and informative commentary on the Navy's "risk assessment" and "mitigation" procedures: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15120369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15120369
    - chx 8y ago
      There obviously is something very wrong with the entire system when this happens twice within a short timeframe.
- danielvf 8y ago
  Started her day on ship at or before 6:00am and had been working for nineteen and half hours at the time of the collision. That's one of many, many reasons the captain is going to be deep trouble.
eigenvector 8y ago
Your summary is pretty good. Here's the full report (PDF): http://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/USS+Fitzgerald+and+USS+John+S+McCain+Collision+Reports.pdf http://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/USS+Fitzgerald+and+USS+John+S...
valuearb 8y ago
i’ve read that the Navy has cut huge corners on training in recent years, this summary sounds like a complete indictment of that.
- linuxftw 8y ago
  They replaced much of the actual 'naval' and occupation training with 'pretend we're the Marines' type of training.
hudibras 8y ago
>- Gave a late turn order, but then immediately countermanded it, keeping the ship on collision course. This is the part that everybody shakes their heads over. In that situation, with that geometry between the ships, it's ingrained and almost automatic for the OOD to go right full rudder and all back full: turning the ship astern of the other ship and coming to a complete stop as soon as possible. At that range (2000-3000 yards), there's no way a collision would have happened. But the OOD actually did the exact opposite: increase speed and turn to the left, which will almost certainly result in a collision, especially if the other ship maneuvers the way it's supposed to. Just thinking about giving those orders in that situation is giving me the shivers...
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.h...
  - jonnybgood 8y ago
    What are you implying by posting that?
    - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
      I think it's pretty obvious what they're implying. Problem is, it's just a lazy argument. From the article: When tested on mental rotation tasks, men averaged 66 percent correct compared to 53 percent correct for women. So the average man may be better than the average woman at these tasks, but it's not a dramatic difference to my mind, and individual women can certainly be excellent at this kind of spatial reasoning, just like individual men can be terrible at it. Not surprisingly, the Navy actually tests people for these skills and gives them extensive initial and ongoing training. If you can't do this job because your brain doesn't work that way, regardless of gender, it's rather unlikely that you'll have the job in the long run.
  - sctb 8y ago
    This is really intellectually lame and super inflammatory. Posting like this will get your account hastily banned, so please don't ever do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
porker 8y ago
It reads like an episode of the Navy Lark [1]. Except that in this case people died. Never thought I'd see reality approach fiction, when a navy is involved. Everybody down! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Navy_Lark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Navy_Lark
- noir_lord 8y ago
  I just got into that show and yes it does, they generally come to full stop by ramming something that won't move.

ComradeTaco 8y ago

I'm curious what hour of her day the deck officer was on and how many hours of sleep she had the night previous. At some point, sleep deprivation can leave you essentially non-functional.

tcj_phx 8y ago
I've heard that female sailors are injected with Depo-Provera, to protect them from getting knocked up... Some women can tolerate this drug, while others are maimed [0]. Progesterone is now known to be a brain hormone. Medroxyprogesterone (brand name: Provera) is a good imposter-progesterone. It's useful for suppressing ovulation, but doesn't function like the endogenous hormone. [0] https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2016/08/i-wouldnt-recommend-it-to-anyone-depo-provera/ https://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/2016/08/i-wouldnt-recomme... edit: They must use all types, not just Provera, but certainly they emphasize the options that don't require a daily pill - the implant, IUD, Depo-Provera, etc. http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=100091 http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=100091
chx 8y ago
According to official report https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4165320/USS-Fitzgerald-and-USS-John-S-McCain-Collision.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4165320/USS-Fitzg... it played a part for sure: 8.4 Fatigue The command leadership allowed the schedule of events preceding the collision to fatigue the crew. The command leadership failed to assess the risks of fatigue and implement mitigation measures to ensure adequate crew rest.
- dTal 8y ago
  Here is a very scathing and informative commentary on the Navy's "risk assessment" and "mitigation" procedures: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15120369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15120369
  - chx 8y ago
    There obviously is something very wrong with the entire system when this happens twice within a short timeframe.
danielvf 8y ago
Started her day on ship at or before 6:00am and had been working for nineteen and half hours at the time of the collision. That's one of many, many reasons the captain is going to be deep trouble.

eigenvector 8y ago

Your summary is pretty good. Here's the full report (PDF): http://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/USS+Fitzgerald+and+USS+John+S+McCain+Collision+Reports.pdf http://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/USS+Fitzgerald+and+USS+John+S...

valuearb 8y ago

i’ve read that the Navy has cut huge corners on training in recent years, this summary sounds like a complete indictment of that.

linuxftw 8y ago
They replaced much of the actual 'naval' and occupation training with 'pretend we're the Marines' type of training.

hudibras 8y ago

>- Gave a late turn order, but then immediately countermanded it, keeping the ship on collision course. This is the part that everybody shakes their heads over. In that situation, with that geometry between the ships, it's ingrained and almost automatic for the OOD to go right full rudder and all back full: turning the ship astern of the other ship and coming to a complete stop as soon as possible. At that range (2000-3000 yards), there's no way a collision would have happened. But the OOD actually did the exact opposite: increase speed and turn to the left, which will almost certainly result in a collision, especially if the other ship maneuvers the way it's supposed to. Just thinking about giving those orders in that situation is giving me the shivers...

WillPostForFood 8y ago
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081217124430.h...
- jonnybgood 8y ago
  What are you implying by posting that?
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    I think it's pretty obvious what they're implying. Problem is, it's just a lazy argument. From the article: When tested on mental rotation tasks, men averaged 66 percent correct compared to 53 percent correct for women. So the average man may be better than the average woman at these tasks, but it's not a dramatic difference to my mind, and individual women can certainly be excellent at this kind of spatial reasoning, just like individual men can be terrible at it. Not surprisingly, the Navy actually tests people for these skills and gives them extensive initial and ongoing training. If you can't do this job because your brain doesn't work that way, regardless of gender, it's rather unlikely that you'll have the job in the long run.
- sctb 8y ago
  This is really intellectually lame and super inflammatory. Posting like this will get your account hastily banned, so please don't ever do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

porker 8y ago

It reads like an episode of the Navy Lark [1]. Except that in this case people died. Never thought I'd see reality approach fiction, when a navy is involved. Everybody down! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Navy_Lark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Navy_Lark

noir_lord 8y ago
I just got into that show and yes it does, they generally come to full stop by ramming something that won't move.