4 ms·

Lisp's syntax is indeed easier to learn, but the vast majority of programmers have made it clear that they DO NOT want to READ code in S-expression format. And

Lisp's syntax is indeed easier to learn, but the vast majority of programmers have made it clear that they DO NOT want to READ code in S-expression format. And you typically have to read more code than you write. I created 3 layered notations to keep Lisp's capabilities (including macros and homoiconicity) while making it easier for normal programmers to read. Instead of "getting rid" of S-expressions, I think adding just a few standard abbreviations to the Lisp reader makes Lisp more acceptable to more developers. See: https://sourceforge.net/projects/readable/ https://sourceforge.net/projects/readable/

lispm 8y ago
Lisp developers haven't adopted those syntax variants. There are some Lisp derived languages with non s-expression syntax (Logo, Dylan, RLISP, SKILL, ...) but the adoption is limited among Lisp programmers.
madmax96 8y ago
>the vast majority of programmers have made it clear that they DO NOT want to READ code in S-expression format I don't think this is true. I don't know of many people (who actually use Lisp -- meaning they took the time to read a book and build a smallish, mostly complete project) who are actually bothered by reading s-expressions. They do take some getting used to, but I really don't see the problem. s-expressions scare newcomers, but eventually it isn't an issue. It's just different.
- kazinator 8y ago
  The vast majority of programmers make it clear that they don't want to use anything but the one of the several popular languages du jour, regardless of what that language looks like, and of what any other language looks like. There is hardly anything familiar to complete neophytes in any programming language. Beyond simple arithmetic expressions like a * b + c (where the use of asterisk for multiplication is already unfamiliar) and function notation f(x, y), everything else is new. Some languages with awful syntax have enjoyed popularity. If you clone the salient features of a popular language to make a new language, you will not automatically end up with a popular language. "Off brand" versions of popular languages largely languish in unpopularity.

lispm 8y ago

Lisp developers haven't adopted those syntax variants. There are some Lisp derived languages with non s-expression syntax (Logo, Dylan, RLISP, SKILL, ...) but the adoption is limited among Lisp programmers.

madmax96 8y ago

>the vast majority of programmers have made it clear that they DO NOT want to READ code in S-expression format I don't think this is true. I don't know of many people (who actually use Lisp -- meaning they took the time to read a book and build a smallish, mostly complete project) who are actually bothered by reading s-expressions. They do take some getting used to, but I really don't see the problem. s-expressions scare newcomers, but eventually it isn't an issue. It's just different.

kazinator 8y ago
The vast majority of programmers make it clear that they don't want to use anything but the one of the several popular languages du jour, regardless of what that language looks like, and of what any other language looks like. There is hardly anything familiar to complete neophytes in any programming language. Beyond simple arithmetic expressions like a * b + c (where the use of asterisk for multiplication is already unfamiliar) and function notation f(x, y), everything else is new. Some languages with awful syntax have enjoyed popularity. If you clone the salient features of a popular language to make a new language, you will not automatically end up with a popular language. "Off brand" versions of popular languages largely languish in unpopularity.