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Honestly, consider the flip side as well. This is just going to inflate the bubble more and create more unqualified candidates. AI degree means they're going to

by aje403 8y ago

Honestly, consider the flip side as well. This is just going to inflate the bubble more and create more unqualified candidates. AI degree means they're going to be churning out candidates who don't know what tcp is or what context switch means. Also, the guy with the (graduate or PHD) AI degree from CMU, before this, handing you his resume, may have studied functional analysis and convex optimization in addition to learning about SVMs. The new guy did not, but he'll be have a checklist of when to use an SVM and when not to, and be pretty good at python. So, in a way, it's deflating the intellectual rigor of the field even further, considering CMU's reputation. Of course, they think it's beneficial to their CS program for whatever set of reasonable reasons we can likely guess at.

joker3 8y ago
How many people really need to know functional analysis to practice machine learning? How many developers need to know TCP coming out of school?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- aje403 8y ago
  You're reading that into my post. Most do not need to know functional analysis. Some absolutely should. My point is not that one needs to know functional analysis to get a machine learning job, its that one of the top AI institutions is decreasing the intellectual rigor of its "average output" in that domain. I find it scary that you're asking the second question. I think any accredited university handing out CS diplomas should make sure their graduates know what TCP is, especially CMU, which will theoretically be sending its graduates to good companies
srinivasan 8y ago
> candidates who don’t know what TCP is or what context switch means. Nope, look at the curriculum again.
- aje403 8y ago
  Are you trolling?
  - srinivasan 8y ago
    I did my undergrad in CS at CMU, and have first-hand experience of what’s covered in the core courses, which are also requirements for this new program. Perhaps you should take a look at the curriculum again like I told you, instead of spewing out falsehoods like “churning out candidates who don’t know what tcp is”. You’re not entitled to your own facts.
    - aje403 8y ago
      https://www.cs.cmu.edu/bs-in-artificial-intelligence/curriculum https://www.cs.cmu.edu/bs-in-artificial-intelligence/curricu... I see an Introduction to Computer Systems course which looks like the only thing that could potentially teach networking, but from looking at the curriculum, it does not. Can you please find the course on this list that teaches networking, even if it isn't in-depth?
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - srinivasan 8y ago
        15-213 Introduction to Computer Systems is the one. Anyone who passed that class knows what context switching means, and what TCP is. Whether they still remember it many years down the line is a different matter :)
        aje403 8y ago
        I stand corrected; there is a lecture referencing networking that I missed upon first glance
    - randcraw 8y ago
      At CMU you took no courses in operating systems? Algorithms? Computer hardware or logic? Compilers? Graphics? Databases? Web programming? Distributed systems? Networks? Parallel/HPC? Language theory? Security/crypto? Because these students will take none of these courses, they will differ significantly from those with a BS in CS. But their AI skills still won't run deep enough to make them expert there either. At best, they'll be conversant with a couple of foci in AI, but not in many other AI areas. In fact, this program seems custom made to prep for work most typical at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and not that many others -- doing pattrec forms of ML on large data. Yet they'll lack the skills typical of today's data engineers (basic ML plus HPC/distributed/throughput, networking, and DB /sys admin) or typical of data scientists (nasic ML with a BA in statistics, plus facility with RDBMSes). Will the absence of these CS skills hamper their competitiveness one day in most mainstream general computing software jobs? I think it probably will. Therefore, if those with this degree don't spend their entire careers working only in big data areas of AI, they will likely will be at a competitive disadvantage to those with broader skills in CS.
fixermark 8y ago
Having graduated with the CMU CS undergrad: if I could go back in time and replace about 80% of the language theory classes that were mandated by the curriculum with regression and machine learning modeling classes, hell yes I would. (And this is coming from someone who TA'd one of those language theory classes ;) ).
- aje403 8y ago
  That I will agree with!
kiliantics 8y ago
Is an understanding of TCP necessary to do AI/ML? As someone who does work in ML (and has no formal background in CS but in physics), I see it as being mostly a combination of statistics and numerical computing. CS concepts outside of algorithms don't really come into it all that much.
- aje403 8y ago
  Very large models train and evaluate across networks. Data pipelines are built across networks. You are a large handicap to a small team if you don’t know how networks work. I think a physics background is nothing more than checking off the math checkbox, which is certainly important

by aje403 8y ago

joker3 8y ago

How many people really need to know functional analysis to practice machine learning? How many developers need to know TCP coming out of school?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
aje403 8y ago
You're reading that into my post. Most do not need to know functional analysis. Some absolutely should. My point is not that one needs to know functional analysis to get a machine learning job, its that one of the top AI institutions is decreasing the intellectual rigor of its "average output" in that domain. I find it scary that you're asking the second question. I think any accredited university handing out CS diplomas should make sure their graduates know what TCP is, especially CMU, which will theoretically be sending its graduates to good companies

srinivasan 8y ago

> candidates who don’t know what TCP is or what context switch means. Nope, look at the curriculum again.

aje403 8y ago
Are you trolling?
- srinivasan 8y ago
  I did my undergrad in CS at CMU, and have first-hand experience of what’s covered in the core courses, which are also requirements for this new program. Perhaps you should take a look at the curriculum again like I told you, instead of spewing out falsehoods like “churning out candidates who don’t know what tcp is”. You’re not entitled to your own facts.
  - aje403 8y ago
    https://www.cs.cmu.edu/bs-in-artificial-intelligence/curriculum https://www.cs.cmu.edu/bs-in-artificial-intelligence/curricu... I see an Introduction to Computer Systems course which looks like the only thing that could potentially teach networking, but from looking at the curriculum, it does not. Can you please find the course on this list that teaches networking, even if it isn't in-depth?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - srinivasan 8y ago
      15-213 Introduction to Computer Systems is the one. Anyone who passed that class knows what context switching means, and what TCP is. Whether they still remember it many years down the line is a different matter :)
      - aje403 8y ago
        I stand corrected; there is a lecture referencing networking that I missed upon first glance
  - randcraw 8y ago
    At CMU you took no courses in operating systems? Algorithms? Computer hardware or logic? Compilers? Graphics? Databases? Web programming? Distributed systems? Networks? Parallel/HPC? Language theory? Security/crypto? Because these students will take none of these courses, they will differ significantly from those with a BS in CS. But their AI skills still won't run deep enough to make them expert there either. At best, they'll be conversant with a couple of foci in AI, but not in many other AI areas. In fact, this program seems custom made to prep for work most typical at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and not that many others -- doing pattrec forms of ML on large data. Yet they'll lack the skills typical of today's data engineers (basic ML plus HPC/distributed/throughput, networking, and DB /sys admin) or typical of data scientists (nasic ML with a BA in statistics, plus facility with RDBMSes). Will the absence of these CS skills hamper their competitiveness one day in most mainstream general computing software jobs? I think it probably will. Therefore, if those with this degree don't spend their entire careers working only in big data areas of AI, they will likely will be at a competitive disadvantage to those with broader skills in CS.

fixermark 8y ago

Having graduated with the CMU CS undergrad: if I could go back in time and replace about 80% of the language theory classes that were mandated by the curriculum with regression and machine learning modeling classes, hell yes I would. (And this is coming from someone who TA'd one of those language theory classes ;) ).

aje403 8y ago
That I will agree with!

kiliantics 8y ago

Is an understanding of TCP necessary to do AI/ML? As someone who does work in ML (and has no formal background in CS but in physics), I see it as being mostly a combination of statistics and numerical computing. CS concepts outside of algorithms don't really come into it all that much.

aje403 8y ago
Very large models train and evaluate across networks. Data pipelines are built across networks. You are a large handicap to a small team if you don’t know how networks work. I think a physics background is nothing more than checking off the math checkbox, which is certainly important