5 ms·

I think I now know how the electrical engineers felt in the '50s and '60s.

by scott_s 8y ago

komali2 8y ago
What do you mean?
- pradn 8y ago
  He's referring to the newly-created "computer science" degrees. The thought must be: why create a degree for a subfield of my field?
- scott_s 8y ago
  That was when computer science emerged as an academic discipline distinct from the design and implementation of computers themselves; up to that point, an electrical engineer probably had the confidence that they were at the forefront of technological change.
- cjoelrun 8y ago
  I think he's referencing the beginning of "Computer Science" degrees. Computers were researched by electrical engineers and mathematicians before.
  - Animats 8y ago
    Yes. My undergraduate diploma says "Electrical Engineering - Computer Science". Computer science wasn't a full department yet.
    - osteele 8y ago
      Mine says “Linguistics”. I took CS graduate courses, but there wasn't an undergraduate major yet. My father-in-law had a math degree and was a math professor, and then an EE professor — the latter while he co-founded an AI lab, that hired physics major Richard Stallman and other non-CS-majors.
smrtinsert 8y ago
So that's what that feeling in my gut is. I'm struggling to find the time to learn ML/AI. This is another red flag to me that I should have been on this long ago.
- senatorobama 8y ago
  I think it's time to say, as Arnold does, to break the rules and do this at work.
jpizza 8y ago
Can you extrapolate on this a bit more? I understand the meaning but it seems different no?
- scott_s 8y ago
  Expanding even more upon a reply to a sibling comment: I think it's possible (but not necessarily so) that AI and "data science" are emerging as academic fields and practical disciplines dependent on, but distinct from, computer science. I think this is similar to how computer science emerged as a distinct discipline from both electrical engineering and math. Electrical engineering and hardware design didn't go away when computer science emerged - quite the contrary. One could be a computer scientist or a practicing software engineer without having a full backward in the underlying technologies (such as electrical and computer engineering, including computer architecture) and theoretical foundations (from the math side, although theoretical computer science clearly covers a lot of this). But for quite a long time, I think that computer science and the field of software were driving the most visible technological change in society and culture. I wonder if that's no longer the case, and AI and data science are emerging "on top of" computer science. We may eventually have AI and/or data science academic departments that are distinct from the computer science department in a university. While there would certainly be an intersection of topics covered - just as there currently is with computer science and computer architecture and electrical engineering - I can see the needs of training a new AI and/or data science researcher and practitioner requiring a separate curriculum. I could see that happening if AI and/or data science become the dominant driver of technological change for society and culture in the same way generic "software" was during the latter half of the 20th century. All of this is speculation, of course. But I think it's quite possible, and perhaps likely.
  - mlazos 8y ago
    I think that the way computer science emerged from EE is totally distinct to what’s happening right now. CS eventually abstracted away all of the electrical engineering aspects of the discipline and as a result you need no knowledge of digital logic design to study computer science. AI/ML I don’t think will ever be this way; you will always need CS knowledge in order to experiment/run/optimize your algorithms.
xtrapolate 8y ago
AI is large enough a field to warrant a new, dedicated track. In practice, as of current times, AI R&D/academia are enabled (perhaps even fueled) largely by the "traditional" constructs of computer science. In my opinion, as time goes by and advancements are made, the coupling should grow weaker - and so we'll reach a point where there would be a more clear distinction between the two tracks, and they won't share much of the same curriculum, similarly to where we stand today with CS and electrical engineering.

I think I now know how the electrical engineers felt in the '50s and '60s.

komali2 8y ago

What do you mean?

pradn 8y ago
He's referring to the newly-created "computer science" degrees. The thought must be: why create a degree for a subfield of my field?
scott_s 8y ago
That was when computer science emerged as an academic discipline distinct from the design and implementation of computers themselves; up to that point, an electrical engineer probably had the confidence that they were at the forefront of technological change.
cjoelrun 8y ago
I think he's referencing the beginning of "Computer Science" degrees. Computers were researched by electrical engineers and mathematicians before.
- Animats 8y ago
  Yes. My undergraduate diploma says "Electrical Engineering - Computer Science". Computer science wasn't a full department yet.
  - osteele 8y ago
    Mine says “Linguistics”. I took CS graduate courses, but there wasn't an undergraduate major yet. My father-in-law had a math degree and was a math professor, and then an EE professor — the latter while he co-founded an AI lab, that hired physics major Richard Stallman and other non-CS-majors.

smrtinsert 8y ago

So that's what that feeling in my gut is. I'm struggling to find the time to learn ML/AI. This is another red flag to me that I should have been on this long ago.

senatorobama 8y ago
I think it's time to say, as Arnold does, to break the rules and do this at work.

jpizza 8y ago

Can you extrapolate on this a bit more? I understand the meaning but it seems different no?

scott_s 8y ago
Expanding even more upon a reply to a sibling comment: I think it's possible (but not necessarily so) that AI and "data science" are emerging as academic fields and practical disciplines dependent on, but distinct from, computer science. I think this is similar to how computer science emerged as a distinct discipline from both electrical engineering and math. Electrical engineering and hardware design didn't go away when computer science emerged - quite the contrary. One could be a computer scientist or a practicing software engineer without having a full backward in the underlying technologies (such as electrical and computer engineering, including computer architecture) and theoretical foundations (from the math side, although theoretical computer science clearly covers a lot of this). But for quite a long time, I think that computer science and the field of software were driving the most visible technological change in society and culture. I wonder if that's no longer the case, and AI and data science are emerging "on top of" computer science. We may eventually have AI and/or data science academic departments that are distinct from the computer science department in a university. While there would certainly be an intersection of topics covered - just as there currently is with computer science and computer architecture and electrical engineering - I can see the needs of training a new AI and/or data science researcher and practitioner requiring a separate curriculum. I could see that happening if AI and/or data science become the dominant driver of technological change for society and culture in the same way generic "software" was during the latter half of the 20th century. All of this is speculation, of course. But I think it's quite possible, and perhaps likely.
- mlazos 8y ago
  I think that the way computer science emerged from EE is totally distinct to what’s happening right now. CS eventually abstracted away all of the electrical engineering aspects of the discipline and as a result you need no knowledge of digital logic design to study computer science. AI/ML I don’t think will ever be this way; you will always need CS knowledge in order to experiment/run/optimize your algorithms.

xtrapolate 8y ago

AI is large enough a field to warrant a new, dedicated track. In practice, as of current times, AI R&D/academia are enabled (perhaps even fueled) largely by the "traditional" constructs of computer science. In my opinion, as time goes by and advancements are made, the coupling should grow weaker - and so we'll reach a point where there would be a more clear distinction between the two tracks, and they won't share much of the same curriculum, similarly to where we stand today with CS and electrical engineering.