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I used to work at a large porn company, and the porn industry has been hurting for a long time. They're completely reliant on affiliate traffic (usually paying

by jarin 16y ago

I used to work at a large porn company, and the porn industry has been hurting for a long time. They're completely reliant on affiliate traffic (usually paying 60-70% revenue share), because the online porn industry is so competitive that it's extremely difficult or impossible to generate your own traffic. It's gotten so bad that porn sites are now giving content to the tube sites with affiliate links, in hopes of mitigating losses. When I worked at that company, I made an "iTunes Store for porn" that did very well on launch, selling full non-DRM scenes for $1.99 each [1]. We even had companies like Hustler, Vivid, and Playboy desperately wanting to get their content into it (they're great at selling DVDs but never quite got the hang of online porn). Unfortunately, I never got the marketing support or budget I needed to keep it going, and the management wanted to keep it exclusive to our brand, so it died off pretty quickly. It's a shame, I think it could have completely revitalized a struggling industry ("The only way to control your content is to be the best provider of it"). I would love to build something like it again, but unfortunately it would be pretty difficult without the resources or industry connections I had while working there. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2008/10/08/come-and-get-it-naughty-america-is-building-an-itunes-for-porn/ http://techcrunch.com/2008/10/08/come-and-get-it-naughty-ame...

kmfrk 16y ago
>I used to work at a large porn company, and the porn industry has been hurting for a long time. That had to be intentional. On another note, what insight did your market research yield with regards to the store? I would assume that a lot of people would be turned away at the prospect of porn-related services showing up in their credit card statement, just to name one assumption. The online porn business actually makes for an interesting study, come to think of it.
- wizard_2 16y ago
  Who sees your credit card statement? You get it mailed, you see it online, its fairly private.
  - ghurlman 16y ago
    Your family.
    - abalashov 16y ago
      Not if you play it right. No paper statements -- all those trees! -- only online. Nothing joint. If you don't follow these rules, but buy drugs, hookers, weapons or porn with your credit card, you need to have your purchasing license taken away; you are obviously not qualified to buy goods and services intelligently.
      - viraptor 16y ago
        Do you seriously log out your bank session every time your wife / gf / ... is in sight or the same room? One quick look is enough to spot some stuff. Never having the banking page open when she's around must look really suspicious.
        thwarted 16y ago
        The quick-close-the-window reaction when someone enters the room when you have a banking website open would definitely be weird. "No, it wasn't porn, it was Citibank! I swear!" But really, there are so many transactions on my banking statement, one with a random, innocuous name wouldn't really stand out. You'd have to be spending a lot of money over a lot of individual transactions, or even more money in a single transaction, for anything to stand out from a glance at a screen full of bank transactions. Or you can just order stuff via a larger retailer like Amazon, which shows up on the bill generically as "Amazon" (however, Amazon sells some adult products, but doesn't seem to sell adult videos... nevertheless). Heh, before the Internet, "Amazon" would have sounded like a porn-based service provider at first blush, I bet.
        abalashov 16y ago
        I don't think that the discrete billing entity name thing really works to this effect, unless you're spending a very small dollar amount on porn and someone skimming your bill is specifically looking to differentiate large transactions visually with no other criteria in mind or subconsciously. It's done because it's _better_ to have it than not to have it. People would rather take their chances with "ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS MERCHANT TMNL 059952E"[1], or "BUSTY LATINAS XXX?" However, if your goal is seriously to prevent your significant other, who has access to your statements to some degree or another, from catching wind of this, you can still always be left in a difficult position: - "What is this $47.95 charge?" And you have to explain it - somehow. - "Oh, yeah, that's just the new clamp on the radiator hose," you stammer unconsciously, arousing suspicion to begin with from anyone with a modicum of attention span and just a dabble more emotional and social acuity than a certifiable clinical sociopath. - From "ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS?" Right. Besides, if the counterparty gets curious, these discrete billing names are often posted in inconspicuous places on Googleable public pages: "Sign up with us today! There's no risk, cancel any time within the first 30 days, and we bill discretely. Your charges will show up under the name 'ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS.'" If nothing else, there will be forum posts from other curious wives and girlfriends asking, "I saw this 'ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS' charge on my husband's credit card statement when it came in the mail! Can anyone tell me what this is?" No, that's just not going to work in the long run. It's just a numbers game at that point, which, to be fair, everything is, but it's a matter of degree. Seriously, though, I don't mean to sound righteous, unearnestly over-enthusiastic, or brand myself a person of conspicuously dubious ethics. But as Shaggy said, "To be a true playa you got to know how to play."[2][3] Far it be from me to condone these actions. Academically speaking, however, _IF_ you _ARE_ going to purchase these kinds of items with the aforementioned constraints: strong passwords, nothing shared, no personal finance administration or planning coinvolvement, no paper statements. Establish yourself from the get-go as a modern prenuptial agreement-seeking Economic Man. Wear a John Galt shirt. Enthusiastically rejoice over neoliberal IMF austerity measures and World Bank currency crisis interventions hinged on axing Third World social spending. Subscribe to Reason magazine. Gush about innovative free-market solutions to commonplace problems hitherto not conceived in pecuniary terms, if only the myopic bureaucrats would just see. Insist that each party to this equitable relationship of mutual exchange handle their own financial business in the name of a vaguely plausible--if quirky--ideological veneer, because first your wife came for your bank statements [...] and when the Feds came for them, who was left to so much as let out a lonely whimper in the darkness for you? Choose a bank specifically for their unwillingness to send paper statements in the name of environmental excellence and low costs, because negative externalities can't go on unchecked forever. [1] I just made that up. Apologies to anyone that actually bills under this name. :-) [2] http://www.lyrics007.com/Shaggy%20Lyrics/It%20Wasnt%20Me%20Lyrics.html http://www.lyrics007.com/Shaggy%20Lyrics/It%20Wasnt%20Me%20L... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY [3] Of course, there is the somewhat persuasive view that if you're a true "playa," you aren't busy signing up for porn sites by the glow of a monitor. But that doesn't fit with the rhetorical purpose of my invocation of the lyrics.
- jdietrich 16y ago
  For the record, almost every business of a sensitive nature uses a bland, nondescript name for the credit card statement and mentions it in big print in their checkout. This obviously increases chargebacks substantially, but it's standard practice so I would imagine is well worth the cost.
  - jarin 16y ago
    It actually decreases chargebacks from what I've seen, because most chargebacks (aside from stolen credit cards) come from significant others discovering the charges. The purchaser says "huh, no idea what that is", and the significant other saya "well call the credit card company and charge it back". Then the purchaser is forced to lie to their credit card company and say that they never authorized those purchases.
    - kiba 16y ago
      That's what digital cash money are good for. Unfortunately, there are no porn provider who would willingly accept an unknown cryptocurrency called bitcoin.
kiba 16y ago
It's a shame, I think it could have completely revitalized a struggling industry ("The only way to control your content is to be the best provider of it"). I would love to build something like it again, but unfortunately it would be pretty difficult without the resources or industry connections I had while working there. Why would it be a "struggling" industry if in fact porn are getting more free and easier to access? It's a thriving industry even if players are hurting.
- jarin 16y ago
  It's almost exactly like the music industry. We all want our music and our porn for free. Only thing is it costs money to make new content (unlike music, there isn't a big 'indie' porn scene), and someone has to pay for it. That's why I thought following the iTunes Store model was so great, because it's a proven business model and the one market where Apple will never, ever compete with you :)
  - wtracy 16y ago
    (unlike music, there isn't a big 'indie' porn scene) It does exist, and it's called "amateur" pornography. Interestingly enough, some companies seem to make good money getting low-quality footage from various anonymous exhibitionists and repackaging it.
  - kiba 16y ago
    It's almost exactly like the music industry. We all want our music and our porn for free. There's so much porn and musics to listen for a lifetime. Why should I even begin to care?
  - thwarted 16y ago
    It's almost exactly like the music industry. This immediately reminded me of "Fluffers Make Movies" http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3218753399273878236 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3218753399273878236 (SFW video, NSFW dialog (but reasonably mild)).
al05 16y ago
Yep, I've seen affiliate traffic go for stupid prices, were they could not possibly be making money on it. I've seen websites set up, just for the purpose of earning money of affiliates.
- jarin 16y ago
  They're called TGPs (thumbnail gallery posts, although most of them include video now), and they have been around forever. They're the primary type of affiliate site.

by jarin 16y ago

kmfrk 16y ago

>I used to work at a large porn company, and the porn industry has been hurting for a long time. That had to be intentional. On another note, what insight did your market research yield with regards to the store? I would assume that a lot of people would be turned away at the prospect of porn-related services showing up in their credit card statement, just to name one assumption. The online porn business actually makes for an interesting study, come to think of it.

wizard_2 16y ago
Who sees your credit card statement? You get it mailed, you see it online, its fairly private.
- ghurlman 16y ago
  Your family.
  - abalashov 16y ago
    Not if you play it right. No paper statements -- all those trees! -- only online. Nothing joint. If you don't follow these rules, but buy drugs, hookers, weapons or porn with your credit card, you need to have your purchasing license taken away; you are obviously not qualified to buy goods and services intelligently.
    - viraptor 16y ago
      Do you seriously log out your bank session every time your wife / gf / ... is in sight or the same room? One quick look is enough to spot some stuff. Never having the banking page open when she's around must look really suspicious.
      - thwarted 16y ago
        The quick-close-the-window reaction when someone enters the room when you have a banking website open would definitely be weird. "No, it wasn't porn, it was Citibank! I swear!" But really, there are so many transactions on my banking statement, one with a random, innocuous name wouldn't really stand out. You'd have to be spending a lot of money over a lot of individual transactions, or even more money in a single transaction, for anything to stand out from a glance at a screen full of bank transactions. Or you can just order stuff via a larger retailer like Amazon, which shows up on the bill generically as "Amazon" (however, Amazon sells some adult products, but doesn't seem to sell adult videos... nevertheless). Heh, before the Internet, "Amazon" would have sounded like a porn-based service provider at first blush, I bet.
        abalashov 16y ago
        I don't think that the discrete billing entity name thing really works to this effect, unless you're spending a very small dollar amount on porn and someone skimming your bill is specifically looking to differentiate large transactions visually with no other criteria in mind or subconsciously. It's done because it's _better_ to have it than not to have it. People would rather take their chances with "ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS MERCHANT TMNL 059952E"[1], or "BUSTY LATINAS XXX?" However, if your goal is seriously to prevent your significant other, who has access to your statements to some degree or another, from catching wind of this, you can still always be left in a difficult position: - "What is this $47.95 charge?" And you have to explain it - somehow. - "Oh, yeah, that's just the new clamp on the radiator hose," you stammer unconsciously, arousing suspicion to begin with from anyone with a modicum of attention span and just a dabble more emotional and social acuity than a certifiable clinical sociopath. - From "ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS?" Right. Besides, if the counterparty gets curious, these discrete billing names are often posted in inconspicuous places on Googleable public pages: "Sign up with us today! There's no risk, cancel any time within the first 30 days, and we bill discretely. Your charges will show up under the name 'ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS.'" If nothing else, there will be forum posts from other curious wives and girlfriends asking, "I saw this 'ENTERTAINMENT INSIGHTS' charge on my husband's credit card statement when it came in the mail! Can anyone tell me what this is?" No, that's just not going to work in the long run. It's just a numbers game at that point, which, to be fair, everything is, but it's a matter of degree. Seriously, though, I don't mean to sound righteous, unearnestly over-enthusiastic, or brand myself a person of conspicuously dubious ethics. But as Shaggy said, "To be a true playa you got to know how to play."[2][3] Far it be from me to condone these actions. Academically speaking, however, _IF_ you _ARE_ going to purchase these kinds of items with the aforementioned constraints: strong passwords, nothing shared, no personal finance administration or planning coinvolvement, no paper statements. Establish yourself from the get-go as a modern prenuptial agreement-seeking Economic Man. Wear a John Galt shirt. Enthusiastically rejoice over neoliberal IMF austerity measures and World Bank currency crisis interventions hinged on axing Third World social spending. Subscribe to Reason magazine. Gush about innovative free-market solutions to commonplace problems hitherto not conceived in pecuniary terms, if only the myopic bureaucrats would just see. Insist that each party to this equitable relationship of mutual exchange handle their own financial business in the name of a vaguely plausible--if quirky--ideological veneer, because first your wife came for your bank statements [...] and when the Feds came for them, who was left to so much as let out a lonely whimper in the darkness for you? Choose a bank specifically for their unwillingness to send paper statements in the name of environmental excellence and low costs, because negative externalities can't go on unchecked forever. [1] I just made that up. Apologies to anyone that actually bills under this name. :-) [2] http://www.lyrics007.com/Shaggy%20Lyrics/It%20Wasnt%20Me%20Lyrics.html http://www.lyrics007.com/Shaggy%20Lyrics/It%20Wasnt%20Me%20L... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY [3] Of course, there is the somewhat persuasive view that if you're a true "playa," you aren't busy signing up for porn sites by the glow of a monitor. But that doesn't fit with the rhetorical purpose of my invocation of the lyrics.
jdietrich 16y ago
For the record, almost every business of a sensitive nature uses a bland, nondescript name for the credit card statement and mentions it in big print in their checkout. This obviously increases chargebacks substantially, but it's standard practice so I would imagine is well worth the cost.
- jarin 16y ago
  It actually decreases chargebacks from what I've seen, because most chargebacks (aside from stolen credit cards) come from significant others discovering the charges. The purchaser says "huh, no idea what that is", and the significant other saya "well call the credit card company and charge it back". Then the purchaser is forced to lie to their credit card company and say that they never authorized those purchases.
  - kiba 16y ago
    That's what digital cash money are good for. Unfortunately, there are no porn provider who would willingly accept an unknown cryptocurrency called bitcoin.

kiba 16y ago

It's a shame, I think it could have completely revitalized a struggling industry ("The only way to control your content is to be the best provider of it"). I would love to build something like it again, but unfortunately it would be pretty difficult without the resources or industry connections I had while working there. Why would it be a "struggling" industry if in fact porn are getting more free and easier to access? It's a thriving industry even if players are hurting.

jarin 16y ago
It's almost exactly like the music industry. We all want our music and our porn for free. Only thing is it costs money to make new content (unlike music, there isn't a big 'indie' porn scene), and someone has to pay for it. That's why I thought following the iTunes Store model was so great, because it's a proven business model and the one market where Apple will never, ever compete with you :)
- wtracy 16y ago
  (unlike music, there isn't a big 'indie' porn scene) It does exist, and it's called "amateur" pornography. Interestingly enough, some companies seem to make good money getting low-quality footage from various anonymous exhibitionists and repackaging it.
- kiba 16y ago
  It's almost exactly like the music industry. We all want our music and our porn for free. There's so much porn and musics to listen for a lifetime. Why should I even begin to care?
- thwarted 16y ago
  It's almost exactly like the music industry. This immediately reminded me of "Fluffers Make Movies" http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3218753399273878236 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3218753399273878236 (SFW video, NSFW dialog (but reasonably mild)).

al05 16y ago

Yep, I've seen affiliate traffic go for stupid prices, were they could not possibly be making money on it. I've seen websites set up, just for the purpose of earning money of affiliates.

jarin 16y ago
They're called TGPs (thumbnail gallery posts, although most of them include video now), and they have been around forever. They're the primary type of affiliate site.