5 ms·

> I don’t require an apology, and would happily create them a OEM account on the LVFS He is specifically not demanding an apology, and is explicitly saying he

> I don’t require an apology, and would happily create them a OEM account on the LVFS He is specifically not demanding an apology, and is explicitly saying he is happy to continue to work with them.

omeid2 8y ago
It implies that someone owes an apology or at least an apology is fitting but the author is willing to forgo it.
- dralley 8y ago
  Well, it sounds like they ignored his emails for 6 months, which their point of contact with him did apologize for in the reddit thread.
digi_owl 8y ago
Nah, it is a passive-aggressive turn of phrase to try to make System76 look bad by being the "lesser" party. It is the kind of crap one would expect from a project spawned of the Gnome camp...
cptskippy 8y ago
And he's butt hurt that they shipped without LVFS so he's publicly admonishing them, trivializing the effort, and telling people to boycott their products. But at least he's willing to work with them.
- roflc0ptic 8y ago
  He doesn't sound particularly aggrieved, and he's not telling people to boycott their products. > I don’t actually mind if System76 doesn’t use fwupd and the LVFS, I just don’t want people to buy new hardware and be disappointed. As someone uninvolved who occasionally looks at linux laptops, this is really useful information for me. One of the (apparently) core developers of (apparently) a tool that allows cross hardware compatibility for linux is saying "this laptop does not adequately support arbitrary versions of linux, and they don't have a compelling technical reason why".
  - arghwhat 8y ago
    The post is not about spreading information, but attacking them for not using LVFS. If what the author wanted to do was simply to spread information, the post would have been the length of a single Twitter post: Make note: System76 uses a custom fw update util only bundled with "Pop_OS!". The entirety about this post is to hang System76 out for their process and decision, explaining how they are wrong, and how the author is willing to forgive them for this wrongdoing without the apology the author feels is in place. The post is nothing but emotional. (I have no strong opinion about System76's decision, but I find this post format to be awful.)
    - roflc0ptic 8y ago
      Interesting that disinterested parties here are coming to such different conclusions. If sharing the process issues was valueless, it would definitely seem personal. But it doesn't seem valueless for me. When making informed judgement about which companies to throw in with, their process matters. It's like MongoDB from days of yore. There was someone who reported a bug and the mongo team were jerks about it. I've specifically chosen not to use Mongo because of that interaction. Don't want my projects hinging on dev teams with good marketing sense but poor communication skills. Don't want my hardware depending on vendors who can't make nice with the FOSS community.
      - cptskippy 8y ago
        Did he attempt to reach out to them via email to get a status update? It doesn't sound like it, he just went straight to whining on a blog.
        mmstick 8y ago
        He was given a notification by System76 back in January that we were busy with moving into the new warehouse, hardware testing, and developing our 18.04 release. Getting our firmware to work with his tool is not a high priority.
- appleiigs 8y ago
  The warning that I can't run any linux distro I want is pretty fair. The blog post so he doesn't have to write a new email each time is also fair.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    He could have just said "I was working with System76 in April of last year on implementing LVFS but they went dark and shipped with a proprietary tool, I'm not sure what happened but I'm disappointed. If you're interested in running a distro other than what they're shipping you might want to consider a different OEM." Instead he went over their email exchanges and trivialized the amount of work they need to invest to change systems and what they needed to do to rectify the situation. Oh but they're no need to apologize, just right the injustice. He completely ignores the fact that they're a business with external motivators driving their decision (i.e. needed to ship, Meltdown, Spectre) and he just complains that they left him hanging. Sure they could have sent him an email giving him a heads up on what was going on and why they were tabling the LVFS implementation but this sort of thing happens all the time in industry.
    - cassidyjames 8y ago
      Yeah, this is fair. One nit-pick is that the System76 firmware tool is not proprietary at all; the blobs themselves are (just like almost every other consumer product), but the firmware updater is all completely open source. It's just not LVFS. We hope to make this all a moot point with completely open firmware in the future, but that's a long and difficult road we're on.
      - hughsient 8y ago
        Is afuefi now open source?

omeid2 8y ago

It implies that someone owes an apology or at least an apology is fitting but the author is willing to forgo it.

dralley 8y ago
Well, it sounds like they ignored his emails for 6 months, which their point of contact with him did apologize for in the reddit thread.

digi_owl 8y ago

Nah, it is a passive-aggressive turn of phrase to try to make System76 look bad by being the "lesser" party. It is the kind of crap one would expect from a project spawned of the Gnome camp...

cptskippy 8y ago

And he's butt hurt that they shipped without LVFS so he's publicly admonishing them, trivializing the effort, and telling people to boycott their products. But at least he's willing to work with them.

roflc0ptic 8y ago
He doesn't sound particularly aggrieved, and he's not telling people to boycott their products. > I don’t actually mind if System76 doesn’t use fwupd and the LVFS, I just don’t want people to buy new hardware and be disappointed. As someone uninvolved who occasionally looks at linux laptops, this is really useful information for me. One of the (apparently) core developers of (apparently) a tool that allows cross hardware compatibility for linux is saying "this laptop does not adequately support arbitrary versions of linux, and they don't have a compelling technical reason why".
- arghwhat 8y ago
  The post is not about spreading information, but attacking them for not using LVFS. If what the author wanted to do was simply to spread information, the post would have been the length of a single Twitter post: Make note: System76 uses a custom fw update util only bundled with "Pop_OS!". The entirety about this post is to hang System76 out for their process and decision, explaining how they are wrong, and how the author is willing to forgive them for this wrongdoing without the apology the author feels is in place. The post is nothing but emotional. (I have no strong opinion about System76's decision, but I find this post format to be awful.)
  - roflc0ptic 8y ago
    Interesting that disinterested parties here are coming to such different conclusions. If sharing the process issues was valueless, it would definitely seem personal. But it doesn't seem valueless for me. When making informed judgement about which companies to throw in with, their process matters. It's like MongoDB from days of yore. There was someone who reported a bug and the mongo team were jerks about it. I've specifically chosen not to use Mongo because of that interaction. Don't want my projects hinging on dev teams with good marketing sense but poor communication skills. Don't want my hardware depending on vendors who can't make nice with the FOSS community.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      Did he attempt to reach out to them via email to get a status update? It doesn't sound like it, he just went straight to whining on a blog.
      - mmstick 8y ago
        He was given a notification by System76 back in January that we were busy with moving into the new warehouse, hardware testing, and developing our 18.04 release. Getting our firmware to work with his tool is not a high priority.
appleiigs 8y ago
The warning that I can't run any linux distro I want is pretty fair. The blog post so he doesn't have to write a new email each time is also fair.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  He could have just said "I was working with System76 in April of last year on implementing LVFS but they went dark and shipped with a proprietary tool, I'm not sure what happened but I'm disappointed. If you're interested in running a distro other than what they're shipping you might want to consider a different OEM." Instead he went over their email exchanges and trivialized the amount of work they need to invest to change systems and what they needed to do to rectify the situation. Oh but they're no need to apologize, just right the injustice. He completely ignores the fact that they're a business with external motivators driving their decision (i.e. needed to ship, Meltdown, Spectre) and he just complains that they left him hanging. Sure they could have sent him an email giving him a heads up on what was going on and why they were tabling the LVFS implementation but this sort of thing happens all the time in industry.
  - cassidyjames 8y ago
    Yeah, this is fair. One nit-pick is that the System76 firmware tool is not proprietary at all; the blobs themselves are (just like almost every other consumer product), but the firmware updater is all completely open source. It's just not LVFS. We hope to make this all a moot point with completely open firmware in the future, but that's a long and difficult road we're on.
    - hughsient 8y ago
      Is afuefi now open source?