5 ms·

"catastrophe as the Australian coral die off," I went deep sea fishing in Florida a few months back. It took forever to get to a place where there were actual

"catastrophe as the Australian coral die off," I went deep sea fishing in Florida a few months back. It took forever to get to a place where there were actual fish. I asked the captain why, basically, he knows where there are large shipping container wrecks and that is where all the sea life is. Thing is, building coral and sea life is super simple [same with killing it]. You literally can just lay down wire grids and get things moving [1]. [1] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-26/scientists-discover-game-changer-for-great-barrier-reef/9190200 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-26/scientists-discover-ga...

Chardok 8y ago
"Thing is, building coral and sea life is super simple [same with killing it]." That is just simply not true. While it might be helpful to lay down structures for sea life, ocean acidification [1], algal blooms [2], and climate change are all contributing to mass death of sea life, and fast enough where we will see many species go extinct in our lifetime (bluefin tuna will be there soon [3]). Even related to your own fishing story, check out the fish sizes and diversity in the 1950s compared to now. [4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom [3] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060724-bluefin-tuna.html https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060724-blue... [4] https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/big-fish-stories-getting-littler https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/b...
- asimpletune 8y ago
  Woah, I was really surprised by the different sizes of the fish.
  - rileyphone 8y ago
    Important to note is that the biggest fish caught in the 50s and 60s seem to all be goliath groupers (also known as jewfish) and are now critically endangered and illegal to keep. I imagine they still catch some on these charter boats, but they are required to release them once they do.
    - rfeather 8y ago
      The unfortunate thing is that no matter whether something is illegal or not, it can still be a victim of bycatch when fishing for legal species, and bycatch mortality is quite high. Bycatch is actually higher than actual catch by weight for some fisheries+methods.[1] It's not just what you eat, but where it came from. [1] http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t4890e/t4890e03.htm http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t4890e/t4890e03.htm Edit: A couple of extra spaces removed
      - pvaldes 8y ago
        And of course the word 'illegal' in the open sea, when you have huge nurse ships in international waters (that will not touch any port in the country) means nothing.
lbenes 8y ago
> building coral and sea life is super simple No. First you need an unpolluted area of ocean with the right conditions. And even then, thinking like yours can create more problems than it solves. Just look how the Osborne artificial reef actually led to an environmental disaster and massive cleanup effort. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/22/florida-retrieving-700000-tires-after-failed-bid-to-create-artifical-reef https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/22/florida-retr...
- hinkley 8y ago
  That story just keeps on giving. > The tires, which were dumped before recycling was possible, will be trucked across the state to Florida’s west coast and burned for energy at a Wheelebrator Technologies renewable waste plant near Tampa, owned by private equity firm Energy Capital Partners. We could recycle the tires, but fuck it, let’s burn them instead so this is an unmitigated disaster.
  - mikec3010 8y ago
    I believe there are "green" ways to burn tires if the conditions are properly controlled and emissions captured. I saw a YT vid about a cement plant in CA that burned them in a furnace for heat to dry the concrete powder. Also, "recycling " tires isn't necessarily green because it takes enormous amounts of energy to shred them. While burning them releases energy.
    - hinkley 8y ago
      I read about this thing in Florida a long time ago and got upset about it. When I was reminded about it that all rushed back. Objectively, tires that have been underwater for decades probably are not a great raw ingredient for making bouncy surfaces for playgrounds or quiet asphalt. But incinerating them even with emissions controls really only recovers a little bit of the embodied energy, and still makes me feel all table-flippy.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    > renewable waste plant I'm still trying to figure out what they mean by that. The plant is generating renewable waste? Or it's fed by a 'renewable' source of waste? I don't think tires are a renewable resource.

Chardok 8y ago

"Thing is, building coral and sea life is super simple [same with killing it]." That is just simply not true. While it might be helpful to lay down structures for sea life, ocean acidification [1], algal blooms [2], and climate change are all contributing to mass death of sea life, and fast enough where we will see many species go extinct in our lifetime (bluefin tuna will be there soon [3]). Even related to your own fishing story, check out the fish sizes and diversity in the 1950s compared to now. [4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom [3] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060724-bluefin-tuna.html https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060724-blue... [4] https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/big-fish-stories-getting-littler https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/b...

asimpletune 8y ago
Woah, I was really surprised by the different sizes of the fish.
- rileyphone 8y ago
  Important to note is that the biggest fish caught in the 50s and 60s seem to all be goliath groupers (also known as jewfish) and are now critically endangered and illegal to keep. I imagine they still catch some on these charter boats, but they are required to release them once they do.
  - rfeather 8y ago
    The unfortunate thing is that no matter whether something is illegal or not, it can still be a victim of bycatch when fishing for legal species, and bycatch mortality is quite high. Bycatch is actually higher than actual catch by weight for some fisheries+methods.[1] It's not just what you eat, but where it came from. [1] http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t4890e/t4890e03.htm http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/t4890e/t4890e03.htm Edit: A couple of extra spaces removed
    - pvaldes 8y ago
      And of course the word 'illegal' in the open sea, when you have huge nurse ships in international waters (that will not touch any port in the country) means nothing.

lbenes 8y ago

> building coral and sea life is super simple No. First you need an unpolluted area of ocean with the right conditions. And even then, thinking like yours can create more problems than it solves. Just look how the Osborne artificial reef actually led to an environmental disaster and massive cleanup effort. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/22/florida-retrieving-700000-tires-after-failed-bid-to-create-artifical-reef https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/22/florida-retr...

hinkley 8y ago
That story just keeps on giving. > The tires, which were dumped before recycling was possible, will be trucked across the state to Florida’s west coast and burned for energy at a Wheelebrator Technologies renewable waste plant near Tampa, owned by private equity firm Energy Capital Partners. We could recycle the tires, but fuck it, let’s burn them instead so this is an unmitigated disaster.
- mikec3010 8y ago
  I believe there are "green" ways to burn tires if the conditions are properly controlled and emissions captured. I saw a YT vid about a cement plant in CA that burned them in a furnace for heat to dry the concrete powder. Also, "recycling " tires isn't necessarily green because it takes enormous amounts of energy to shred them. While burning them releases energy.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    I read about this thing in Florida a long time ago and got upset about it. When I was reminded about it that all rushed back. Objectively, tires that have been underwater for decades probably are not a great raw ingredient for making bouncy surfaces for playgrounds or quiet asphalt. But incinerating them even with emissions controls really only recovers a little bit of the embodied energy, and still makes me feel all table-flippy.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > renewable waste plant I'm still trying to figure out what they mean by that. The plant is generating renewable waste? Or it's fed by a 'renewable' source of waste? I don't think tires are a renewable resource.