5 ms·

As somebody who frequented Malaysia extensively in the first half of the 2000s (in the aftermath of the ruinous 1997 currency crisis) I’m very curious to see ho

by qubex 9y ago

As somebody who frequented Malaysia extensively in the first half of the 2000s (in the aftermath of the ruinous 1997 currency crisis) I’m very curious to see how the dynamic between Mahathir and Anwar plays out: the latter was a member of the former’s government during the crisis and the former had the latter jailed on what were wildly held to be trumped-up sodomy charges (as the article mentions). This is going to be a very awkward working relationship.

acqq 9y ago
> former had the latter jailed on (...) sodomy charges Wow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim_sodomy_trials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim_sodomy_trials "Sodomy, even if consensual, is punishable by up to 20 years' imprisonment and whipping under Section 377B of the Malaysian Penal Code.[18]" "(defined as "carnal intercourse against the order of nature")" It's not written in the article how much, but it seems Anwar Ibrahim spent quite a lot of time in prison, more than once.
- coldtea 9y ago
  That was the law in tons of US states until 2003 or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat...
  - acqq 9y ago
    Thanks: In the US, according to Wikipedia: before "2003, the penalty for violating a sodomy law varied very widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction among those states retaining their sodomy laws. The harshest penalties were in Idaho, where a person convicted of sodomy could earn a life sentence. Michigan followed, with a maximum penalty of 15 years imprisonment while repeat offenders got life.[citation needed]" To compare, in the UK the maximal penalty until 1967 was two year prison with the hard labor, until 1885 life imprisonment, and before 1861 death.
  - chrisbennet 9y ago
    Kinney Friedman told a story about a famous Texas lawyer who got his clients charge of sodomy reduced to “following too close”.
sohkamyung 9y ago
I've read accounts in the local media (in Malaysia and Singapore) that Mahathir will work at getting Anwar pardoned. Once pardoned, Anwar will run for a seat in Parliament. Once in, Mahathir would step aside and let Anwar become the Prime Minister. How this would work in practice is, of course, pretty much unknown territory for now.
- OnlyLys 9y ago
  > I've read accounts in the local media (in Malaysia and Singapore) that Mahathir will work at getting Anwar pardoned. Once pardoned, Anwar will run for a seat in Parliament. Once in, Mahathir would step aside and let Anwar become the Prime Minister. That's correct, he said it again live during last night's victory speech.
madaxe_again 9y ago
They were very trumped up indeed. I am acquainted with someone who used to be on Anwar’s staff - he was put under severe pressure (threats to livelihood, family, life) to testify against Anwar - “sign this statement we wrote” type thing. He ended up changing his name and seeking asylum in Thailand. As to how this plays out - I am highly sceptical of Mahathir’s motives. You don’t have a sudden change of heart in your 90’s and give up a lifetime of authoritarian nepotism unless you’ve a strong motive - and what that motive is, I don’t know. I just can’t help but think that this is a trap. BN brand is getting dirty, so transfer their animus to the opposition, resume business as usual?
nailer 9y ago
Mahatir is insane (or as the post notes below, perhaps shrewdly taking advantage of ignorant or powerless populace). Asides from faking the sodomy charges against Anwar (who was widely popular and hence seen as a threat), he also believes an international conspiracy of Jewish people caused the Asian Financial Crisis: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/16/world/malaysian-premier-sees-jews-behind-nation-s-money-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/16/world/malaysian-premier-s... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/17/malaysia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/17/malaysia
- rglovejoy 9y ago
  He also tried to have Schinldler's List banned in his country because he felt it would make people sympathetic towards Israel.
- rayiner 9y ago
  The downvoting for pointing out the documented anti-semitism is interesting.
  - ptero 9y ago
    I do not think it gets downvotes for pointing out documented anti-semitism. My guess is that the first sentence is a downvote magnet. Nothing else in that post points to insanity. IMO, it rather indicates a very shrewd politician working to control public opinion and get rid of opponents using all tools available.
    - rayiner 9y ago
      I think asserting that there is a vast global Jewish conspiracy points strongly to insanity.
      - ptero 9y ago
        The fine point though is that asserting != believing. In population with largely anti-Israel feelings asserting it may give you short term political benefits.

by qubex 9y ago

acqq 9y ago

> former had the latter jailed on (...) sodomy charges Wow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim_sodomy_trials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim_sodomy_trials "Sodomy, even if consensual, is punishable by up to 20 years' imprisonment and whipping under Section 377B of the Malaysian Penal Code.[18]" "(defined as "carnal intercourse against the order of nature")" It's not written in the article how much, but it seems Anwar Ibrahim spent quite a lot of time in prison, more than once.

coldtea 9y ago
That was the law in tons of US states until 2003 or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat...
- acqq 9y ago
  Thanks: In the US, according to Wikipedia: before "2003, the penalty for violating a sodomy law varied very widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction among those states retaining their sodomy laws. The harshest penalties were in Idaho, where a person convicted of sodomy could earn a life sentence. Michigan followed, with a maximum penalty of 15 years imprisonment while repeat offenders got life.[citation needed]" To compare, in the UK the maximal penalty until 1967 was two year prison with the hard labor, until 1885 life imprisonment, and before 1861 death.
- chrisbennet 9y ago
  Kinney Friedman told a story about a famous Texas lawyer who got his clients charge of sodomy reduced to “following too close”.

sohkamyung 9y ago

I've read accounts in the local media (in Malaysia and Singapore) that Mahathir will work at getting Anwar pardoned. Once pardoned, Anwar will run for a seat in Parliament. Once in, Mahathir would step aside and let Anwar become the Prime Minister. How this would work in practice is, of course, pretty much unknown territory for now.

OnlyLys 9y ago
> I've read accounts in the local media (in Malaysia and Singapore) that Mahathir will work at getting Anwar pardoned. Once pardoned, Anwar will run for a seat in Parliament. Once in, Mahathir would step aside and let Anwar become the Prime Minister. That's correct, he said it again live during last night's victory speech.

madaxe_again 9y ago

They were very trumped up indeed. I am acquainted with someone who used to be on Anwar’s staff - he was put under severe pressure (threats to livelihood, family, life) to testify against Anwar - “sign this statement we wrote” type thing. He ended up changing his name and seeking asylum in Thailand. As to how this plays out - I am highly sceptical of Mahathir’s motives. You don’t have a sudden change of heart in your 90’s and give up a lifetime of authoritarian nepotism unless you’ve a strong motive - and what that motive is, I don’t know. I just can’t help but think that this is a trap. BN brand is getting dirty, so transfer their animus to the opposition, resume business as usual?

nailer 9y ago

Mahatir is insane (or as the post notes below, perhaps shrewdly taking advantage of ignorant or powerless populace). Asides from faking the sodomy charges against Anwar (who was widely popular and hence seen as a threat), he also believes an international conspiracy of Jewish people caused the Asian Financial Crisis: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/16/world/malaysian-premier-sees-jews-behind-nation-s-money-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/16/world/malaysian-premier-s... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/17/malaysia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/17/malaysia

rglovejoy 9y ago
He also tried to have Schinldler's List banned in his country because he felt it would make people sympathetic towards Israel.
rayiner 9y ago
The downvoting for pointing out the documented anti-semitism is interesting.
- ptero 9y ago
  I do not think it gets downvotes for pointing out documented anti-semitism. My guess is that the first sentence is a downvote magnet. Nothing else in that post points to insanity. IMO, it rather indicates a very shrewd politician working to control public opinion and get rid of opponents using all tools available.
  - rayiner 9y ago
    I think asserting that there is a vast global Jewish conspiracy points strongly to insanity.
    - ptero 9y ago
      The fine point though is that asserting != believing. In population with largely anti-Israel feelings asserting it may give you short term political benefits.