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I'm new to this HN thing so in an attempt to be "civil" I'll simply say I disagree with every single thing you said. The decision to implement California car e

I'm new to this HN thing so in an attempt to be "civil" I'll simply say I disagree with every single thing you said. The decision to implement California car emissions standards was not a heavy handed or half baked idea. The Rand corporation was called in to help figure out a solution other than catalytic converter and the ultimate decision was signed off by Ronald "not a fan of regulation" Reagan. Not only have there been improvements in the catalytic converter but also there's this company called Tesla that has innovated and provided an alternative. Your suggestion of goals was implemented in the last administration and is in the process of being removed. Lobbyists kill goals/limits. A total net power draw is regulating the users behavior. Is that what you want? Smaller windows or better insulation...? While home A/C is a factor, this is not about the user. This is about clean power for California (whether it's effective at producing the power is a different conversation). Users can still get better insulation or smaller windows or innovate as they see fit. California had two nuclear reactors. It has shut them down. This legislation (which I didn't know about till today) is one in a long string of movements toward cleaner air starting back in 1967. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/about/history https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/about/history An unrelated note, I hear all this talk about money As others have said, this is an economic non-starter for a home in California. One thing that has not been mentioned is that currently home appraisers do not consider solar panels in the value of a home.

smsm42 8y ago
> also there's this company called Tesla that has innovated and provided an alternative You can't really call Tesla an alternative to regular cars with a price point of $80K (plus options, plus taxes). I know there are people in Silicon Valley who have so much money that $80k is like pocket change to them, but even in SV that's a minority. In the meantime, I've bought a car for $2k several years ago and it still runs (admittedly, it required some repairs on the way, but still). > home appraisers do not consider solar panels in the value of a home. Insurers do, as I recently found out. So maybe appraisers will catch up too.
- rconti 8y ago
  $50k, plus taxes. You bought a car for $2k, but it was a used car. The fair comparison might be a Nissan Versa S, the cheapest new car in America at $12,780. Or maybe your car has more features than that, I don't know. That still puts the Model 3 at a multiple of the cost of that car, but hardly to an insane extent. Hell, in California you can, today, with rebates (yes, you have to pay some money up front) buy a new BMW i3 for about $22k. Of course, that's a particularly limited electric car, but then again, it also has features a $12,780 Nissan Versa does not, so you could argue the Versa is also limited. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. Actually a better argument from your point would be that the mandatory reverse cameras, airbags, safety cells, safety belts, ABS, etc, make new cars more expensive than they SHOULD be. In many countries you can get a brand new car for way less than $12,780. Of course, it's less safe and pollutes more than the new car you buy in the US, but there's a tradeoff in price. Then again, that tradeoff trickles down to the used market, and pretty soon you have a $2k used car that HN buyers can buy, which is safer, cleaner, and more fuel efficient than an equivalent used car in a 2nd world country. Or at least, that's how it works in theory.
  - sundvor 8y ago
    As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology. This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up. Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mandatory (as well as solar panels). Alas, most people (well, at least politicians) have no idea what you're talking about, and prices are way up there.
    - literallycancer 8y ago
      >Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I live in a house built in 1920s. Ever seen someone driving a Model T?

smsm42 8y ago

> also there's this company called Tesla that has innovated and provided an alternative You can't really call Tesla an alternative to regular cars with a price point of $80K (plus options, plus taxes). I know there are people in Silicon Valley who have so much money that $80k is like pocket change to them, but even in SV that's a minority. In the meantime, I've bought a car for $2k several years ago and it still runs (admittedly, it required some repairs on the way, but still). > home appraisers do not consider solar panels in the value of a home. Insurers do, as I recently found out. So maybe appraisers will catch up too.

rconti 8y ago
$50k, plus taxes. You bought a car for $2k, but it was a used car. The fair comparison might be a Nissan Versa S, the cheapest new car in America at $12,780. Or maybe your car has more features than that, I don't know. That still puts the Model 3 at a multiple of the cost of that car, but hardly to an insane extent. Hell, in California you can, today, with rebates (yes, you have to pay some money up front) buy a new BMW i3 for about $22k. Of course, that's a particularly limited electric car, but then again, it also has features a $12,780 Nissan Versa does not, so you could argue the Versa is also limited. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. Actually a better argument from your point would be that the mandatory reverse cameras, airbags, safety cells, safety belts, ABS, etc, make new cars more expensive than they SHOULD be. In many countries you can get a brand new car for way less than $12,780. Of course, it's less safe and pollutes more than the new car you buy in the US, but there's a tradeoff in price. Then again, that tradeoff trickles down to the used market, and pretty soon you have a $2k used car that HN buyers can buy, which is safer, cleaner, and more fuel efficient than an equivalent used car in a 2nd world country. Or at least, that's how it works in theory.
- sundvor 8y ago
  As DSC has been mandatory for a few years now in Australia, this means anyone buying a reasonably new 2nd hand car is going to get this important safety technology. This is a good thing. You'd be hard pushed to claim it has brought the prices of cars up. Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I wish Australia had made double glazed windows mandatory (as well as solar panels). Alas, most people (well, at least politicians) have no idea what you're talking about, and prices are way up there.
  - literallycancer 8y ago
    >Likewise if all new houses must have solar, it's just going to become the norm and everyone will benefit. Bravo! I live in a house built in 1920s. Ever seen someone driving a Model T?