5 ms·

This is a repost of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16927649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16927649 from two weeks ago. So in that vein, here's my

This is a repost of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16927649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16927649 from two weeks ago. So in that vein, here's my comment on that one: Getting a little tired of these showing up. Yes, these services exist, yes some people use them, and yes, it's totally "weird Japan." But no, they're not anywhere NEAR mainstream. I think using the word "industry" really makes the reader think it is and imagine a huge, dysfunctional society. I do appreciate the paragraph or so where they point out that this kind of thing has existed and does exist in other countries, as well -- I just don't understand why people always insist on pointing at a minor subculture in Japan and writing entire spiels about it as if it were a common thing. Imagine a Japanese writer talking about the "greased pig chasing industry" in America.

aclimatt 8y ago
I'm not sure how that's relevant. As others pointed out, even if it's very niche, it still exists. Yes, there are a number of articles fetishizing all of the "weird" aspects of Japan and perhaps in some way making them seem pervasive to people who haven't visited, but this article is doing absolutely none of that. (And even if it were, that's not the point.) I'm going to gather you didn't make it past the first few paragraphs, because the entire point of the article, particularly in the last third, is an analysis of reality and what constitutes real relationships. The author tries to use this subculture to evaluate the context of families, unconditional love, and how money may or may not change the equation. For that reason, I think it's one of the best articles I've read recently, as it's a thought-provoking insight into human needs and the realities of modern relationships. Give it another read. Just because the story takes place in Japan, doesn't mean it's about Japan.
- sdrothrock 8y ago
  > I'm going to gather you didn't make it past the first few paragraphs I actually did and remain completely unconvinced despite the frame. There's another article from a few more months ago that was a lot more convincing and even wrote a positive comment reinforcing its content and pointing out how pervasive a problem loneliness can be in Japan and how the society really prevents people from making friends. I would argue that the "point of the article" being buried in the "last third" isn't really the point, especially when the title is "Japan's Rent-a-Family Industry." > I'm not sure how that's relevant. To this point, my problem is that popular news focuses so much on "Japan is weird" and "Japan is exotic" that it creates and maintains an image of Japan as an ineffable other, which does a disservice to both the Japanese people and also to people who work with Japanese people and even really encourages a kind of subtle racism on both sides, where Japanese people are Japanese "because they are" -- they're just quixotic and traditional and exotic. I say it encourages this on both sides because there's a movement among Japanese people called nihonjin-ron, which itself is an attempt to find things "uniquely Japanese," from the length of the large intestine (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10109809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10109809) to squatting ability (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?20037-Western-Knees-Eastern-Knees-(or-just-Nihonjinron-) http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?20037-Western-Kne...) to an apparent inability to learn English. These kinds of articles are often enthusiastically pulled up as "oh yes, Japan is totally unique, see this!" and only serve to make a completely artificial barrier between cultures, one that is heightened by the fact that these articles are almost always the only ones that make popular news by virtue of being "weird."
- anonthu2018 8y ago
  I think adding perspective is extremely relevant. If I did not read sdrothrock's comment, I really would have a completely different view of Japan and Japanese society. I often feel a lot of these Western articles on various Asian cultures to be quite disingenuous. The point of the article is entirely different if this was a common occurrence in Japanese society versus it being based on a tiny, niche, that affects less than 0.1% of Japanese people. As an analogy, imagine a Japanese article talking about "American family relationships" based on child beauty pageants and Honey Boo Boo.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I often feel a lot of these Western articles on various Asian cultures to be quite disingenuous. Half of it is people that haven't lived abroad, and are not familiar with different cultures (or are only shallowly familiar) not being able to image a different way of life and set of values as "normal". Another half of it is media wanting to paint a story such as that is larger and more impressive than it actually is.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I'm not sure how that's relevant. As others pointed out, even if it's very niche, it still exists. It still exists in the US too. So there's that. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/rentafriend-lets-buy-friends-hire/story?id=11148093 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/rentafriend-lets-buy-frien... Besides, no information makes sense in isolation. Knowing that X exists or Y happened doesn't say much, if anything at all. Why it exists, how prevalent it is, etc, is far more important. "People eat dead babies in Finland" doesn't say anything -- it's actually downright misleading. But: "Two weirdos satanists pals stole a stillborn baby from a hospital in Finland and ate it" put things in the right perspective. (P.S The Finish story never happened -- it's an example).
stcredzero 8y ago
You don't have to imagine. Just look at the coverage of dog eating in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_... Yes, these services exist, yes some people use them, and yes, it's totally "weird Korea." However, this practice is sharply declining in the younger generations.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Not to mention that there's nothing "weird" about it. Some areas eat frogs, others don't. Some areas eat squirrels, other don't. Some areas eat snails, other don't. Some areas eat horses (including major places like Italy) other's don't. Some areas eat dogs, other's don't, and that's not just limited to Korea -- it happens throughout the globe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat#By_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat#By_region
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Really, eating octopus should be considered like eating a dog or a dolphin. Those things are scary smart!
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Scary tasty too!
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        My wife loves calamari, and orders it pretty much every chance she gets!
lhorie 8y ago
Do people really think this kind of thing is common? I mean, this is the first time I saw this article and I like learning about weird subcultures as much as the next person, but I tend to go in with the understanding that it made into an article precisely because it's obscure.
- sdrothrock 8y ago
  > Do people really think this kind of thing is common? I think the use of the word "industry" is my main problem with it. An industry sounds big, like it has multiple companies and tons of customers.
mc32 8y ago
I think "industry" is a fine term. Lots of things that are relatively low diffusion are "industry". Take: Artificial limbs. Antique fashion. Independent supercars. S&M goods. Fake furniture props for selling houses.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure each and every one* of those industries is several orders of magnitude larger than the industry for fake families. For example, there are 2 million people in the US alone with artificial limbs. * ..except maybe independent supercars, and even then only if counting units sold and not dollars invested.
  - mc32 8y ago
    Ok, I'll grant you "niche industry". Kind of like the people that get hired to cry at funerals and such.
Angostura 8y ago
I must admit, I didn't really get a weird Japan vibe from the piece; the opening isn't holding the service up to any kind of ridicule. We all know that loneliness is chronic problem, and it felt as if Japan had found an unusual approach to coping with it.

aclimatt 8y ago

I'm not sure how that's relevant. As others pointed out, even if it's very niche, it still exists. Yes, there are a number of articles fetishizing all of the "weird" aspects of Japan and perhaps in some way making them seem pervasive to people who haven't visited, but this article is doing absolutely none of that. (And even if it were, that's not the point.) I'm going to gather you didn't make it past the first few paragraphs, because the entire point of the article, particularly in the last third, is an analysis of reality and what constitutes real relationships. The author tries to use this subculture to evaluate the context of families, unconditional love, and how money may or may not change the equation. For that reason, I think it's one of the best articles I've read recently, as it's a thought-provoking insight into human needs and the realities of modern relationships. Give it another read. Just because the story takes place in Japan, doesn't mean it's about Japan.

sdrothrock 8y ago
> I'm going to gather you didn't make it past the first few paragraphs I actually did and remain completely unconvinced despite the frame. There's another article from a few more months ago that was a lot more convincing and even wrote a positive comment reinforcing its content and pointing out how pervasive a problem loneliness can be in Japan and how the society really prevents people from making friends. I would argue that the "point of the article" being buried in the "last third" isn't really the point, especially when the title is "Japan's Rent-a-Family Industry." > I'm not sure how that's relevant. To this point, my problem is that popular news focuses so much on "Japan is weird" and "Japan is exotic" that it creates and maintains an image of Japan as an ineffable other, which does a disservice to both the Japanese people and also to people who work with Japanese people and even really encourages a kind of subtle racism on both sides, where Japanese people are Japanese "because they are" -- they're just quixotic and traditional and exotic. I say it encourages this on both sides because there's a movement among Japanese people called nihonjin-ron, which itself is an attempt to find things "uniquely Japanese," from the length of the large intestine (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10109809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10109809) to squatting ability (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?20037-Western-Knees-Eastern-Knees-(or-just-Nihonjinron-) http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?20037-Western-Kne...) to an apparent inability to learn English. These kinds of articles are often enthusiastically pulled up as "oh yes, Japan is totally unique, see this!" and only serve to make a completely artificial barrier between cultures, one that is heightened by the fact that these articles are almost always the only ones that make popular news by virtue of being "weird."
anonthu2018 8y ago
I think adding perspective is extremely relevant. If I did not read sdrothrock's comment, I really would have a completely different view of Japan and Japanese society. I often feel a lot of these Western articles on various Asian cultures to be quite disingenuous. The point of the article is entirely different if this was a common occurrence in Japanese society versus it being based on a tiny, niche, that affects less than 0.1% of Japanese people. As an analogy, imagine a Japanese article talking about "American family relationships" based on child beauty pageants and Honey Boo Boo.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I often feel a lot of these Western articles on various Asian cultures to be quite disingenuous. Half of it is people that haven't lived abroad, and are not familiar with different cultures (or are only shallowly familiar) not being able to image a different way of life and set of values as "normal". Another half of it is media wanting to paint a story such as that is larger and more impressive than it actually is.
coldtea 8y ago
>I'm not sure how that's relevant. As others pointed out, even if it's very niche, it still exists. It still exists in the US too. So there's that. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/rentafriend-lets-buy-friends-hire/story?id=11148093 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/rentafriend-lets-buy-frien... Besides, no information makes sense in isolation. Knowing that X exists or Y happened doesn't say much, if anything at all. Why it exists, how prevalent it is, etc, is far more important. "People eat dead babies in Finland" doesn't say anything -- it's actually downright misleading. But: "Two weirdos satanists pals stole a stillborn baby from a hospital in Finland and ate it" put things in the right perspective. (P.S The Finish story never happened -- it's an example).

stcredzero 8y ago

You don't have to imagine. Just look at the coverage of dog eating in Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat_consumption_in_South_... Yes, these services exist, yes some people use them, and yes, it's totally "weird Korea." However, this practice is sharply declining in the younger generations.

coldtea 8y ago
Not to mention that there's nothing "weird" about it. Some areas eat frogs, others don't. Some areas eat squirrels, other don't. Some areas eat snails, other don't. Some areas eat horses (including major places like Italy) other's don't. Some areas eat dogs, other's don't, and that's not just limited to Korea -- it happens throughout the globe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat#By_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat#By_region
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Really, eating octopus should be considered like eating a dog or a dolphin. Those things are scary smart!
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Scary tasty too!
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      My wife loves calamari, and orders it pretty much every chance she gets!

lhorie 8y ago

Do people really think this kind of thing is common? I mean, this is the first time I saw this article and I like learning about weird subcultures as much as the next person, but I tend to go in with the understanding that it made into an article precisely because it's obscure.

sdrothrock 8y ago
> Do people really think this kind of thing is common? I think the use of the word "industry" is my main problem with it. An industry sounds big, like it has multiple companies and tons of customers.

mc32 8y ago

I think "industry" is a fine term. Lots of things that are relatively low diffusion are "industry". Take: Artificial limbs. Antique fashion. Independent supercars. S&M goods. Fake furniture props for selling houses.

jpatokal 8y ago
I'm pretty sure each and every one* of those industries is several orders of magnitude larger than the industry for fake families. For example, there are 2 million people in the US alone with artificial limbs. * ..except maybe independent supercars, and even then only if counting units sold and not dollars invested.
- mc32 8y ago
  Ok, I'll grant you "niche industry". Kind of like the people that get hired to cry at funerals and such.

Angostura 8y ago

I must admit, I didn't really get a weird Japan vibe from the piece; the opening isn't holding the service up to any kind of ridicule. We all know that loneliness is chronic problem, and it felt as if Japan had found an unusual approach to coping with it.