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Most of these commenters don't appear to be whining about their situation, but rather replying to the question of why men in tech positions don't try to befrien

Most of these commenters don't appear to be whining about their situation, but rather replying to the question of why men in tech positions don't try to befriend more women. Their answer is that they're concerned about the optics of trying to initiate the friendship. And by unattractive, they don't necessarily mean "ugly" but rather geeky, asocial, with niche interests, no fashion sense, little in common with most women, etc. It can be the way they carry themselves, their posture, the way they walk, the sound of their voice, stuttering, lack of vocal control... For someone like that with poor social skills and a lot of anxiety, it's not at all uncommon for a woman to misconstrue their efforts at friendship as a romantic overture or worse. It can also just be shyness due to inexperience interacting with women. This is not necessarily the fault of the women; they likely do receive a lot of uncomfortable romantic overtures from socially awkward people like this. The commenters aren't placing blame on anyone, but describing the reality of their situation. Some of the commenters have a rather rude and selfish attitude about it, but this is a genuine issue for a lot of men and explains part of the reason why some women in CS may feel isolated. If anything, I think people should try to have more empathy for this particular predicament, so that men and women can hopefully become more comfortable fostering professional and platonic relationships in the workplace.

stcredzero 9y ago
And by unattractive, they don't necessarily mean "ugly" but rather geeky, asocial, with niche interests, no fashion sense, little in common with most women, etc Young men and women in their 20's usually don't have a very good self awareness of their own inherent attractiveness. There's that which Iain M. Banks termed, "the elegance of the newly matured." By that, I mean something which is natural, and of the natural world and natural beauty. That cat over there might have a slightly squished face and a weird toe, but hell, it's still a cat. You don't have to have much in common with women/men. Dress neatly and be well groomed. Genuinely have fun with something and genuinely be yourself. Do socialize, but don't limit yourself by thinking that bros or sociopaths need to rule your life. Do try dancing and see if you genuinely have fun with that. If you do, then know that it's very potent, but you have to be in the moment to let the real magic happen. Actually, that last part applies to everything else as well. Most 20-somethings, males and females, are too mired in their preconceptions and their contention in the social hierarchy competition to have a full appreciation of their own natural beauty. (And often, each other's.)
- meowface 9y ago
  That is easier said than done for people who have been struggling with social isolation, ostracization, loneliness, mockery, anxiety, awkwardness, zero self-esteem, an inability to relate, and little or no contact with the opposite sex for their entire lives. They don't know how to dress in a fashionable or appealing way. They probably don't know proper grooming beyond the basics. And even if they were to improve their physical appearance, many will likely still have a lot of difficulty carrying out normal social interactions (in the minds of others), especially with the opposite sex. You say "genuinely be yourself", but many people are unable to be themselves without unintentionally and unknowingly creating aversion and discomfort in others. Of course many of these people can and do improve themselves and gain a lot more confidence, but the reality is that in tech careers, they exist in large numbers and will continue to exist. Many will have experienced situations where a woman feels uncomfortable or threatened despite purely good and platonic/professional intentions. Many will choose to limit all interactions with women to a minimum as a result of this, if for no other reason than instinctive and learned fear. And on the flip side, many women will probably have experienced romantic/sexual advances, stalking, and harassing behavior from awkward people like this (perhaps sometimes from people who don't realize they're coming across that way and sometimes from people who know exactly what they're doing), so they've been conditioned to have this reaction as well. This is not to put blame on either party, but just to describe the reality of the situation and one of the potential reasons why women may feel less connected to their coworkers at such jobs. Many women also struggle with anxiety, awkwardness, isolation, and the other issues listed, but on average it tends to be less common and less severe than for men, especially in CS-type fields (as the article describes).
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    That is easier said than done for people who have been struggling with social isolation, ostracization, loneliness, mockery, anxiety, awkwardness, zero self-esteem, an inability to relate, and little or no contact with the opposite sex for their entire lives. That would also have been me, to some extent. Many things that are worth doing have an element of challenge. Easier said than done. They don't know how to dress in a fashionable or appealing way. They probably don't know proper grooming beyond the basics. Those are big ones, and they are fairly easily fixed if you have the resources of a white collar worker. Isn't that what happens in those 80's movies? The awkward one gets cleaned up and turns out to be a hottie? You say "genuinely be yourself", but many people are unable to be themselves without unintentionally and unknowingly creating aversion and discomfort in others. This, too goes for just about everyone, to some extent. Dancing or some other kind of physical activity can help. The point isn't to let all of your guts spill out. The point is to get you out of yourself, without being artificially impaired. Being artificially impaired actually never actually helped me one iota. Not even Ecstasy, at least not in the long run. In terms of good relations between men and women, I think it largely hurts on US campuses. Many women also struggle with anxiety, awkwardness, isolation, and the other issues listed I dated one for most of a decade and asked her to marry me. She said no. Didn't end well. I would say, that finding a partner who is well adjusted pretty much trumps every other concern. The first well adjusted partner who you'd trust to save your life: I'd say one should marry her/him. One last thing I'd say: Don't be a nihilist. I'm an atheist, but I would also say that I have a purpose driven life. Go and see enough of the world, so you know how both ugly and beautiful it can be -- until it brings you to tears. Then you will be able to find and live for some meaningful goal. Getting past nihilism can be a huge leg up on finding good relationships. (College aged women can sometimes mistake nihilism for depth, but for me, I was too psychically beat up to "benefit" from that.)

stcredzero 9y ago

And by unattractive, they don't necessarily mean "ugly" but rather geeky, asocial, with niche interests, no fashion sense, little in common with most women, etc Young men and women in their 20's usually don't have a very good self awareness of their own inherent attractiveness. There's that which Iain M. Banks termed, "the elegance of the newly matured." By that, I mean something which is natural, and of the natural world and natural beauty. That cat over there might have a slightly squished face and a weird toe, but hell, it's still a cat. You don't have to have much in common with women/men. Dress neatly and be well groomed. Genuinely have fun with something and genuinely be yourself. Do socialize, but don't limit yourself by thinking that bros or sociopaths need to rule your life. Do try dancing and see if you genuinely have fun with that. If you do, then know that it's very potent, but you have to be in the moment to let the real magic happen. Actually, that last part applies to everything else as well. Most 20-somethings, males and females, are too mired in their preconceptions and their contention in the social hierarchy competition to have a full appreciation of their own natural beauty. (And often, each other's.)

meowface 9y ago
That is easier said than done for people who have been struggling with social isolation, ostracization, loneliness, mockery, anxiety, awkwardness, zero self-esteem, an inability to relate, and little or no contact with the opposite sex for their entire lives. They don't know how to dress in a fashionable or appealing way. They probably don't know proper grooming beyond the basics. And even if they were to improve their physical appearance, many will likely still have a lot of difficulty carrying out normal social interactions (in the minds of others), especially with the opposite sex. You say "genuinely be yourself", but many people are unable to be themselves without unintentionally and unknowingly creating aversion and discomfort in others. Of course many of these people can and do improve themselves and gain a lot more confidence, but the reality is that in tech careers, they exist in large numbers and will continue to exist. Many will have experienced situations where a woman feels uncomfortable or threatened despite purely good and platonic/professional intentions. Many will choose to limit all interactions with women to a minimum as a result of this, if for no other reason than instinctive and learned fear. And on the flip side, many women will probably have experienced romantic/sexual advances, stalking, and harassing behavior from awkward people like this (perhaps sometimes from people who don't realize they're coming across that way and sometimes from people who know exactly what they're doing), so they've been conditioned to have this reaction as well. This is not to put blame on either party, but just to describe the reality of the situation and one of the potential reasons why women may feel less connected to their coworkers at such jobs. Many women also struggle with anxiety, awkwardness, isolation, and the other issues listed, but on average it tends to be less common and less severe than for men, especially in CS-type fields (as the article describes).
- stcredzero 9y ago
  That is easier said than done for people who have been struggling with social isolation, ostracization, loneliness, mockery, anxiety, awkwardness, zero self-esteem, an inability to relate, and little or no contact with the opposite sex for their entire lives. That would also have been me, to some extent. Many things that are worth doing have an element of challenge. Easier said than done. They don't know how to dress in a fashionable or appealing way. They probably don't know proper grooming beyond the basics. Those are big ones, and they are fairly easily fixed if you have the resources of a white collar worker. Isn't that what happens in those 80's movies? The awkward one gets cleaned up and turns out to be a hottie? You say "genuinely be yourself", but many people are unable to be themselves without unintentionally and unknowingly creating aversion and discomfort in others. This, too goes for just about everyone, to some extent. Dancing or some other kind of physical activity can help. The point isn't to let all of your guts spill out. The point is to get you out of yourself, without being artificially impaired. Being artificially impaired actually never actually helped me one iota. Not even Ecstasy, at least not in the long run. In terms of good relations between men and women, I think it largely hurts on US campuses. Many women also struggle with anxiety, awkwardness, isolation, and the other issues listed I dated one for most of a decade and asked her to marry me. She said no. Didn't end well. I would say, that finding a partner who is well adjusted pretty much trumps every other concern. The first well adjusted partner who you'd trust to save your life: I'd say one should marry her/him. One last thing I'd say: Don't be a nihilist. I'm an atheist, but I would also say that I have a purpose driven life. Go and see enough of the world, so you know how both ugly and beautiful it can be -- until it brings you to tears. Then you will be able to find and live for some meaningful goal. Getting past nihilism can be a huge leg up on finding good relationships. (College aged women can sometimes mistake nihilism for depth, but for me, I was too psychically beat up to "benefit" from that.)