5 ms·
That's exactly the problem, buses can never match that. They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance d
by stefan_ 9y ago
That's exactly the problem, buses can never match that. They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance due to personal cars, lights etc. impeding them.
- SilasX 9y agoThey can do bus-only lanes though. Ideally, also toll the roads high enough so that the traffic is never backed up. (And, even more ideally, have no toll when when the road is below capacity.)
- s2g 9y agoForce the middle class out of the city, give them shitty transit options, then tax the hell out of them when they decide to drive. Wonderful.
- SilasX 9y agoThe idea is that the bus wouldn't be shitty if it weren't having to compete on equal terms with the rest of the choked traffic.
- wool_gather 9y agoYou have a point, even though I disagree in the long view. It is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. Making transit really good is very hard until cars are deprioritized. And until transit is really good, deprioritizing cars screws a lot of people over.
- kcorbitt 9y agoBuses works great as a middle-class transit option in lots of places. When I lived in Barcelona I used the city bus as my primary method of short- to medium-distance transit, as did, I believe, the majority of middle-class residents. Taking the bus doesn't have to be the terrible experience it has devolved into in many US metro areas.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoYou're gonna get flagged for that because it's in direct contradiction with the beliefs of most here.
- s2g 9y agoYou're gonna get flagged for pointing out that HN is a pretty extreme echo chamber.
- paulgerhardt 9y agoCitylab's push here is in response to South American cities doing exactly that with great success[1]. Initially developed in Curitaba, follow on initiatives in Bogota have been very popular[2]. Basically, treat the bus like a metro. Give them their own lane. Make sure the platform is level with pickup. And you've got a massively cost down subway system. For an inspiring documentary you should check this[3] video out. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/26/curitiba-brazil-brt-transport-revolution-history-cities-50-buildings https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/26/curitiba-braz... [2] http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/mar/21/bogotas-bus-rapid-transit-system-eyed-us-urban-pla/ http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/mar/21/bogotas-bus-rapid-trans... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3YjeARuilI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3YjeARuilI
- wool_gather 9y agoI recall reading an article a few years ago about Bogotá's transit, where the mayor (I think) said something very interesting. Among other arguments, he made a moral argument about the dedicated lane for transit. Roughly, there's 40 or 50 people on the bus, vs 1-2 per car, and you get, what, 3? 2? cars in the space of a bus. He found it completely unjustified to let the convenience of those 45 people be outweighed by the convenience of the 4 or 5. I'm not sure that it stacks up perfectly logically, but it's an interesting way to think about it. And it looks like they have a pretty good system.
- nordsieck 9y ago> Roughly, there's 40 or 50 people on the bus, vs 1-2 per car, and you get, what, 3? 2? cars in the space of a bus. He found it completely unjustified to let the convenience of those 45 people be outweighed by the convenience of the 4 or 5. That's only true if the lane is as full of busses as other lanes are full of cars.
- cozzyd 9y agoYes, but if the bus is faster, more people will take the bus and so you will add more buses. In places like Quito with dedicated busways, there are buses basically non-stop. Buses can follow one another better than trains too because you don't have the signal system reducing headways.
- InclinedPlane 9y agoBus rapid transit. Dedicated, sometimes separated, lanes. High throughput stations. Carefully designed light systems, etc. If you do it right you can get a system that is nearly as good as a subway at a fraction of the cost. A lot of cities in South America, for example, have proven that it works already.
- gregmac 9y agoI went to school in Ottawa, where they have a 'transitway' [1] that is basically a series of bus-only highways, though there are some parts that are only dedicated lanes. I wasn't a daily user but it was decent enough - along the route I used to use most often a bus came every 3 minutes during peak times. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitway_(Ottawa) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitway_(Ottawa)
- reaperducer 9y ago>They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance due to personal cars, lights etc. impeding them. Lots of cities have found ways around this. Express buses with dedicated rights-of-way in Pittsburgh, for example. Or Chicago's 146 Outer Drive Express and J14 Jeffrey Jump routes are also good examples. Too often the biggest problem with buses getting around isn't the buses. It's cars driving, turning, or parking illegally in bus lanes.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoWhich itself is a symptom of infrastructure not meeting capacity. If there were enough parking people wouldn't park illegally.
- wool_gather 9y agoClose...the infrastructure to focus on here is still transit; if the buses were sufficient, the parking issue would be solved simply by fewer cars on the road.
- stefan_ 9y agoThere will never be enough parking. You might also consider that the 20 m^2 land for a parking spot in prime locations like San Francisco are easily worth >$1000 per month and using that for free parking is part of why your rent is so high.
- InitialLastName 9y agoIf there were an appropriate price for parking illegally (please pay this big fine!) people wouldn't park illegally.
- adrianN 9y agoIf there were no free surface parking every road would magically gain two lanes, e.g. for buses or bikes. Or you could use all that space to increase density. See for example how it works in Tokyo.