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I didn't say anything about men being bad I never said that you did. You only impute that from the juxtaposition of the sentences. I only said that vilificatio

I didn't say anything about men being bad I never said that you did. You only impute that from the juxtaposition of the sentences. I only said that vilification wasn't such a good idea. Given that we are talking about the potential downsides of "an insular and chauvinist culture," I think it's useful to say one should be circumspect about vilification. Assume incompetence before maliciousness, and all that. You implied that I did. Not at all. You are stating that I implied that you did, however, and that's simply not true, which I have stated above. In this, you are implying that I am a liar. Let me "shut that down hard." I've already apologized so either provide your evidence, or be calling me a liar. (a) rooted in the 1970s and (b) ignore decades of subsequent research. Aww, hell. Also ignore research from the 60's and from common practices of just 5 years ago! I think all these things feed into each other, too. There can be more than one explanation. Are there other de-professionalized fields?

tptacek 9y ago
I don't know. Are there? The home computing revolution was a weird inflection point. Medicine got more scientific over the last 200 years, steadily so, not less. The law has steadily remained formal and accredited since the founding of the country (and presumably long before). I'm sure there are similar cases, but this might be the biggest one in recent memory. Again, part of my claim is: this is not really a surprising or weird argument. It's pretty obvious from the recent history of the field. You can argue that it doesn't have as much explanatory power as I'm giving it, but I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the underlying phenomenon didn't occur.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  I don't know. Are there? Popular Music? Fiction writing? Journalism? Creating video content would qualify. (Possibly relevant: YouTube's audience is mostly male, while Tumblr's is mostly female. IIRC, the audience for video pornography also tends to skew male, while written erotica skews female.) The home computing revolution was a weird inflection point. Basically, it's the start of when computing went from a tool for accounting/administration/bureaucracy to also broadly encompassing media. Many of the de-profesionalized fields I mention above are associated with media. Again, part of my claim is: this is not really a surprising or weird argument. It's pretty obvious from the recent history of the field. I do think you're onto something.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Journalism seems like it could be a good example!

tptacek 9y ago

I don't know. Are there? The home computing revolution was a weird inflection point. Medicine got more scientific over the last 200 years, steadily so, not less. The law has steadily remained formal and accredited since the founding of the country (and presumably long before). I'm sure there are similar cases, but this might be the biggest one in recent memory. Again, part of my claim is: this is not really a surprising or weird argument. It's pretty obvious from the recent history of the field. You can argue that it doesn't have as much explanatory power as I'm giving it, but I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the underlying phenomenon didn't occur.

stcredzero 9y ago
I don't know. Are there? Popular Music? Fiction writing? Journalism? Creating video content would qualify. (Possibly relevant: YouTube's audience is mostly male, while Tumblr's is mostly female. IIRC, the audience for video pornography also tends to skew male, while written erotica skews female.) The home computing revolution was a weird inflection point. Basically, it's the start of when computing went from a tool for accounting/administration/bureaucracy to also broadly encompassing media. Many of the de-profesionalized fields I mention above are associated with media. Again, part of my claim is: this is not really a surprising or weird argument. It's pretty obvious from the recent history of the field. I do think you're onto something.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Journalism seems like it could be a good example!