3 ms·

It's not proven that " constitutional democracy" is the ideal. The "foundation of modern government" says that a Black person as no rights, but counts as 3/5ths

by kolpa 8y ago

It's not proven that " constitutional democracy" is the ideal. The "foundation of modern government" says that a Black person as no rights, but counts as 3/5ths of a person for their master's voting rights.

pfraze 8y ago
Modern constitutional democracy and republicanism were developed during the 17th and 18th century by Enlightenment authors (Locke, Rousseau, and Montesquieu). They setup some fairly novel concepts for enabling representative government, including the idea that rights derive from the principle of authority (Locke) and the idea of separation of powers to limit authoritarianism (Montesquieu). Ideal is hard to quantify here, but if we focus on maximizing representation and effectiveness at the same time, then it's fair to say that these forms of government were uniquely successful. Despite their flaws and failures, they still seem to be the best at maximizing those two variables. Prior to the U.S., people accepted Plato's sensibility that all forms of democracy devolve into authoritarianism -- which obviously is a meme that persists today. (It's worth pointing out that at the same time the U.S. was forming, France had its democratic revolution which ultimately settled into Napoleonic rule.) The racism of the Enlightenment authors I mentioned is fairly staggering. It's hard to reconcile that with their work, even at the time it was written. Despite that, America now has 100% suffrage and managed to retain its government structure (via a civil war).
forapurpose 8y ago
> It's not proven that " constitutional democracy" is the ideal. The "foundation of modern government" says that a Black person as no rights, but counts as 3/5ths of a person for their master's voting rights. Great point; I agree that I shouldn't have used the word "ideal", because it's not at all ideal. Constitutional democracy sucks; it's just much better than any alternative. (I think Churchill said that.)
- opo 8y ago
  >...Constitutional democracy sucks; it's just much better than any alternative. (I think Churchill said that.) He said something like that, but he didn't say he originated the thought. In the house of Commons, he once said: "...Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." https://richardlangworth.com/worst-form-of-government https://richardlangworth.com/worst-form-of-government

by kolpa 8y ago

pfraze 8y ago

Modern constitutional democracy and republicanism were developed during the 17th and 18th century by Enlightenment authors (Locke, Rousseau, and Montesquieu). They setup some fairly novel concepts for enabling representative government, including the idea that rights derive from the principle of authority (Locke) and the idea of separation of powers to limit authoritarianism (Montesquieu). Ideal is hard to quantify here, but if we focus on maximizing representation and effectiveness at the same time, then it's fair to say that these forms of government were uniquely successful. Despite their flaws and failures, they still seem to be the best at maximizing those two variables. Prior to the U.S., people accepted Plato's sensibility that all forms of democracy devolve into authoritarianism -- which obviously is a meme that persists today. (It's worth pointing out that at the same time the U.S. was forming, France had its democratic revolution which ultimately settled into Napoleonic rule.) The racism of the Enlightenment authors I mentioned is fairly staggering. It's hard to reconcile that with their work, even at the time it was written. Despite that, America now has 100% suffrage and managed to retain its government structure (via a civil war).

forapurpose 8y ago

> It's not proven that " constitutional democracy" is the ideal. The "foundation of modern government" says that a Black person as no rights, but counts as 3/5ths of a person for their master's voting rights. Great point; I agree that I shouldn't have used the word "ideal", because it's not at all ideal. Constitutional democracy sucks; it's just much better than any alternative. (I think Churchill said that.)

opo 8y ago
>...Constitutional democracy sucks; it's just much better than any alternative. (I think Churchill said that.) He said something like that, but he didn't say he originated the thought. In the house of Commons, he once said: "...Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." https://richardlangworth.com/worst-form-of-government https://richardlangworth.com/worst-form-of-government