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This comment is in every single one of these threads. I am not trying to be hyperbolic here, but it reminds me of people that act as if "laws" are the only thin

This comment is in every single one of these threads. I am not trying to be hyperbolic here, but it reminds me of people that act as if "laws" are the only thing keeping them from murdering their annoying neighbor. I don't know how to read it without thinking "wow, this confirms what women are saying about men". I mean, I guess I should be glad there's some self-awareness? Maybe I just can't empathize as a gay man though, but I've never, ever felt this way around a male coworker, gay or otherwise. edit: To further explain my thinking... what's the alternative? The only way I can understand the comment is "Oh, well this is a witchhunt and I'm afraid of being swept up" ... or else, "I have done those behaviors that men are getting in trouble for and am worried about doing them to a coworker." Maybe there's another interpretation that I'm not able to understand? Trying to understand here. Thanks.

Draiken 8y ago
I believe comparing murder to sexual harassment is plain misleading. If someone acuses someone else of murdering his neighbour they will have to go to all lenghts to prove it and it's a major moral line to cross. If someone acuses someone else of sexually harassing a woman, whether they're guilty or not, they'd most likely lose their job straight away and be labelled as a "perv" or something similar. I can't see how you can compare those. In your particular case, the equivalent would be a man screaming "sexual harassment" from another man. There's a huge stigma accompanied with that. It's just not socially acceptable on society today. On top of that the homossexual community is another minority with all the weight of discrimination following it. Let's say that happens. It's easier for you to prove he fired you because of your sexual orientation than for him to prove you harassed him. I believe there's a reason you don't feel this threatened. It's because unfortunately that's how society works today. [Edit: grammar]
- colemickens 8y ago
  >It's easier for you to prove he fired you because of your sexual orientation than for him to prove you harassed him. So, I can't understand as a gay man because I'm immune to accusations of sexual harassment because I can just use my orientation as a discrimination shield? Eh, no, not really. Frankly, it doesn't make sense and er, it doesn't address the fact that the other person could be gay? While I concede that a false allegation of sexual harassment carries a different weight than a false allegation of murder... false accusations are lies and presumably will happen even if you avoid all contact with someone, no? I guess I don't know what the alternative is. If I have to choose between ignoring workplace harassment and having folks err on the side of caution in the workplace behavior, I know which way I hope for us to err.
  - Draiken 8y ago
    I didn't mean to imply you can't understand that because of being gay. I merely think sexual orientation changes the entire thing. The tension people feel comes from society and IMO that's very different when it's not the traditional heterosexual dynamic. As much as I'd love to live in a world where everyone is truly equal, that's not the world we live in. > false accusations are lies and presumably will happen even if you avoid all contact with someone, no? Absolutely true. But lying about sexual misconduct is relatively easy compared to a murder. If someone does decide to be malicious against you, it's easier to prove them wrong if it's known that you stay away from the other person. Because of gossip and perception if you're close to someone of the opposite sex on the work environment people assume the worst.
furi 8y ago
As I said in another comment, I fear approaching women because I don't expect people to be any more charitable with me than I am with them, and I do not think highly of men who approach women. If a man approaches my girlfriend without a very good excuse both her and I automatically assume sexual intent (even in the absence of any overtly sexual, creepy or inappropriate behavior) because in our experience that's usually correct (probably some confirmation bias at play there I don't doubt). I know several of my friends feel the same way and I don't get the impression that this is an uncommon default. I simply don't want people to suspect me in the same way so I avoid approaching women and if I do I try to work in the fact that I have a partner so as to make myself appear a bit more harmless. This comment captures that fear for me, albeit dressed up in hysteria about falsified sexual harassment allegations.

Draiken 8y ago

I believe comparing murder to sexual harassment is plain misleading. If someone acuses someone else of murdering his neighbour they will have to go to all lenghts to prove it and it's a major moral line to cross. If someone acuses someone else of sexually harassing a woman, whether they're guilty or not, they'd most likely lose their job straight away and be labelled as a "perv" or something similar. I can't see how you can compare those. In your particular case, the equivalent would be a man screaming "sexual harassment" from another man. There's a huge stigma accompanied with that. It's just not socially acceptable on society today. On top of that the homossexual community is another minority with all the weight of discrimination following it. Let's say that happens. It's easier for you to prove he fired you because of your sexual orientation than for him to prove you harassed him. I believe there's a reason you don't feel this threatened. It's because unfortunately that's how society works today. [Edit: grammar]

colemickens 8y ago
>It's easier for you to prove he fired you because of your sexual orientation than for him to prove you harassed him. So, I can't understand as a gay man because I'm immune to accusations of sexual harassment because I can just use my orientation as a discrimination shield? Eh, no, not really. Frankly, it doesn't make sense and er, it doesn't address the fact that the other person could be gay? While I concede that a false allegation of sexual harassment carries a different weight than a false allegation of murder... false accusations are lies and presumably will happen even if you avoid all contact with someone, no? I guess I don't know what the alternative is. If I have to choose between ignoring workplace harassment and having folks err on the side of caution in the workplace behavior, I know which way I hope for us to err.
- Draiken 8y ago
  I didn't mean to imply you can't understand that because of being gay. I merely think sexual orientation changes the entire thing. The tension people feel comes from society and IMO that's very different when it's not the traditional heterosexual dynamic. As much as I'd love to live in a world where everyone is truly equal, that's not the world we live in. > false accusations are lies and presumably will happen even if you avoid all contact with someone, no? Absolutely true. But lying about sexual misconduct is relatively easy compared to a murder. If someone does decide to be malicious against you, it's easier to prove them wrong if it's known that you stay away from the other person. Because of gossip and perception if you're close to someone of the opposite sex on the work environment people assume the worst.

furi 8y ago

As I said in another comment, I fear approaching women because I don't expect people to be any more charitable with me than I am with them, and I do not think highly of men who approach women. If a man approaches my girlfriend without a very good excuse both her and I automatically assume sexual intent (even in the absence of any overtly sexual, creepy or inappropriate behavior) because in our experience that's usually correct (probably some confirmation bias at play there I don't doubt). I know several of my friends feel the same way and I don't get the impression that this is an uncommon default. I simply don't want people to suspect me in the same way so I avoid approaching women and if I do I try to work in the fact that I have a partner so as to make myself appear a bit more harmless. This comment captures that fear for me, albeit dressed up in hysteria about falsified sexual harassment allegations.