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This is dead on. To be honest, girls can get creeped out whether I have platonic intent or not. Part of what defines a guy as "creepy" is the mere fact of wheth

This is dead on. To be honest, girls can get creeped out whether I have platonic intent or not. Part of what defines a guy as "creepy" is the mere fact of whether or not he's reading a girl's signals correctly. This can be problematic, since it doesn't necessarily follow that failing to read a girl's boundaries correctly means I have anything other than platonic intent. This can be circumvented for sure, but my usual method is simply to keep conversations about work only, and not to linger when a work topic has concluded. This might seem like overkill, but I'm trying t err on the side of caution here.

InstanceOf 9y ago
I've seen women call men creepy for literally no reason (this is more common in pre-college aged girls), I assume it's equivalent to "you're ugly and not a person to me and I'm offended you tried to talk to me (even if it was purely school assignment related)". I've even met one girl who _wanted_ it to be a term of endearment (considering the above, there was no way that was going to work). I've also seen a shit-ton of creepy borderline sociopathic behavior from males, much of it gone uncalled out (by the supposedly sane males who were standing by), which often will lead to a woman calling the person creepy (and hopefully she isn't physicslly hurt in addition to merely the scare of something terrible about to happen).
- stcredzero 9y ago
  I've seen women call men creepy for literally no reason I'm corroborating this. I've also seen a shit-ton of creepy borderline sociopathic behavior from males, much of it gone uncalled out (by the supposedly sane males who were standing by) Let me guess: It was from the highest status male in the immediate vicinity?
- ajkjk 9y ago
  You've described "calling men creepy for no reason" and then described the reason. I think you're really saying that the word creepy means something different than its 'face value', as it were. Put differently: the word "creepy" means one thing. Actually saying someone is "creepy", however, is a social signal with a very different meaning (namely: your attention is unwanted / you are lesser / something like that). Parsed that way, it makes sense that that message would not be sent in situations where it doesn't seem socially unacceptable to send it, even if everyone is thinking it. One of the better things about being an adult is that it becomes socially acceptable, usually, at least in good company, to do what's right even if it violates some status-signally thing.
- everdrive 9y ago
  As I understand it, a woman doesn't know which men are threats or not (and some certainly are) -- so a man who can't read their boundaries is really a canary in the mine for them. Moreso, this tends not to be an intellectual calculation, but an intuitive emotional reaction -- to the degree that a woman might not really be able to articulate why she finds a man creepy, except that it's obvious to her and her female friends agree. Although this problem is frustrating to me, I fully admit it didn't arise out of nowhere. Women have some real bad actors they need to be on the lookout for. That this is an intuitive reaction (instead of an intellectual calculation) really implies this is not a new problem. Unfortunately, though, it does mean observing some old-fashioned boundaries with women is the safest course of action.
yosito 9y ago
> it doesn't necessarily follow that failing to read a girl's boundaries correctly means I have anything other than platonic intent Failing to read a _woman's_ boundaries correctly may not say anything about your intentions, but intentions don't matter if you're violating someone's boundaries. People shouldn't make excuses for not reading other's boundaries, they should learn to read other's boundaries and if they're repeatedly incapable or unwilling to do so, they should be treated as either children, adults with social disorders, or violators. There is NO acceptable excuse for violating another person's boundaries.
- manicdee 9y ago
  Which is why men who aren’t able to read those boundaries prefer to simply avoid getting anywhere near those boundaries. The easiest way of not transgressing is to avoid contact altogether.
  - yosito 9y ago
    Reasonable enough, but if that's the case, we should be blaming the avoidance on men for their social incompetence, not on women for having boundaries.
    - ravenstine 9y ago
      What exactly does a man get for going out of his way like you suggest? Most of the time, nothing. Unless I can read that a woman is receptive to friendship, trying to befriend women because they're women is time better spent on working. It's a two-way street, and while I have had my share of female friends, the majority of women are either not receptive(i.e. won't give men the benefit of the doubt) or content to wait for men to take the initiative.
      - yosito 9y ago
        A man is not entitled to get anything. And if he's trying to get something, that seems like a pretty good reason for a woman to not be receptive to him. How many times have you walked past a homeless person trying to be "friendly" because you knew their motivation was to get something from you? I'm a man, nerdy, below average attractiveness, but a majority of my friends are women because I don't approach them trying to get something, and I've found that a majority of women are extremely receptive to being friends.

InstanceOf 9y ago

I've seen women call men creepy for literally no reason (this is more common in pre-college aged girls), I assume it's equivalent to "you're ugly and not a person to me and I'm offended you tried to talk to me (even if it was purely school assignment related)". I've even met one girl who _wanted_ it to be a term of endearment (considering the above, there was no way that was going to work). I've also seen a shit-ton of creepy borderline sociopathic behavior from males, much of it gone uncalled out (by the supposedly sane males who were standing by), which often will lead to a woman calling the person creepy (and hopefully she isn't physicslly hurt in addition to merely the scare of something terrible about to happen).

stcredzero 9y ago
I've seen women call men creepy for literally no reason I'm corroborating this. I've also seen a shit-ton of creepy borderline sociopathic behavior from males, much of it gone uncalled out (by the supposedly sane males who were standing by) Let me guess: It was from the highest status male in the immediate vicinity?
ajkjk 9y ago
You've described "calling men creepy for no reason" and then described the reason. I think you're really saying that the word creepy means something different than its 'face value', as it were. Put differently: the word "creepy" means one thing. Actually saying someone is "creepy", however, is a social signal with a very different meaning (namely: your attention is unwanted / you are lesser / something like that). Parsed that way, it makes sense that that message would not be sent in situations where it doesn't seem socially unacceptable to send it, even if everyone is thinking it. One of the better things about being an adult is that it becomes socially acceptable, usually, at least in good company, to do what's right even if it violates some status-signally thing.
everdrive 9y ago
As I understand it, a woman doesn't know which men are threats or not (and some certainly are) -- so a man who can't read their boundaries is really a canary in the mine for them. Moreso, this tends not to be an intellectual calculation, but an intuitive emotional reaction -- to the degree that a woman might not really be able to articulate why she finds a man creepy, except that it's obvious to her and her female friends agree. Although this problem is frustrating to me, I fully admit it didn't arise out of nowhere. Women have some real bad actors they need to be on the lookout for. That this is an intuitive reaction (instead of an intellectual calculation) really implies this is not a new problem. Unfortunately, though, it does mean observing some old-fashioned boundaries with women is the safest course of action.

yosito 9y ago

> it doesn't necessarily follow that failing to read a girl's boundaries correctly means I have anything other than platonic intent Failing to read a _woman's_ boundaries correctly may not say anything about your intentions, but intentions don't matter if you're violating someone's boundaries. People shouldn't make excuses for not reading other's boundaries, they should learn to read other's boundaries and if they're repeatedly incapable or unwilling to do so, they should be treated as either children, adults with social disorders, or violators. There is NO acceptable excuse for violating another person's boundaries.

manicdee 9y ago
Which is why men who aren’t able to read those boundaries prefer to simply avoid getting anywhere near those boundaries. The easiest way of not transgressing is to avoid contact altogether.
- yosito 9y ago
  Reasonable enough, but if that's the case, we should be blaming the avoidance on men for their social incompetence, not on women for having boundaries.
  - ravenstine 9y ago
    What exactly does a man get for going out of his way like you suggest? Most of the time, nothing. Unless I can read that a woman is receptive to friendship, trying to befriend women because they're women is time better spent on working. It's a two-way street, and while I have had my share of female friends, the majority of women are either not receptive(i.e. won't give men the benefit of the doubt) or content to wait for men to take the initiative.
    - yosito 9y ago
      A man is not entitled to get anything. And if he's trying to get something, that seems like a pretty good reason for a woman to not be receptive to him. How many times have you walked past a homeless person trying to be "friendly" because you knew their motivation was to get something from you? I'm a man, nerdy, below average attractiveness, but a majority of my friends are women because I don't approach them trying to get something, and I've found that a majority of women are extremely receptive to being friends.