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I've been browsing this thread for about 45 minutes. Not a single comment is rude, most of the comments are trying to debate about the issue. If you post a sub

• yosito 8y ago
  You must have missed all the comments of men complaining that they can't be friendly to women because they're an unattractive man. Not sure where you got the word "hate" from. I'm not saying anything about hate.
  • stcredzero 8y ago
    You must have missed all the comments of men complaining that they can't be friendly to women because they're an unattractive man. I've missed them. Can you aggregate links? I honestly find this interesting. (You can "cheat" this using the reply links.)
    • yosito 8y ago
      CMD+F unatt I'm not gonna do your work for you.
      • stcredzero 8y ago
        I see. You, "won't do labor." Most of the time I see the phrase, it's not from good people. It's not like you can CMD-F a sentiment. So, I just tried it, and I found exactly one match for "unatt" that fit the sentiment discussed from the 1st person. I only found one person who said he, personally, couldn't be friendly to women because he is unattractive. The rest are talking about people in general, and aren't necessarily attached to the ability to be friendly. From what I saw, the issue of being friendly with women is more attached to the problems of risk, and this risk is correlated with relative attractiveness.
      • meowface 8y ago
        Most of these commenters don't appear to be whining about their situation, but rather replying to the question of why men in tech positions don't try to befriend more women. Their answer is that they're concerned about the optics of trying to initiate the friendship. And by unattractive, they don't necessarily mean "ugly" but rather geeky, asocial, with niche interests, no fashion sense, little in common with most women, etc. It can be the way they carry themselves, their posture, the way they walk, the sound of their voice, stuttering, lack of vocal control... For someone like that with poor social skills and a lot of anxiety, it's not at all uncommon for a woman to misconstrue their efforts at friendship as a romantic overture or worse. It can also just be shyness due to inexperience interacting with women. This is not necessarily the fault of the women; they likely do receive a lot of uncomfortable romantic overtures from socially awkward people like this. The commenters aren't placing blame on anyone, but describing the reality of their situation. Some of the commenters have a rather rude and selfish attitude about it, but this is a genuine issue for a lot of men and explains part of the reason why some women in CS may feel isolated. If anything, I think people should try to have more empathy for this particular predicament, so that men and women can hopefully become more comfortable fostering professional and platonic relationships in the workplace.
        • stcredzero 8y ago
          And by unattractive, they don't necessarily mean "ugly" but rather geeky, asocial, with niche interests, no fashion sense, little in common with most women, etc Young men and women in their 20's usually don't have a very good self awareness of their own inherent attractiveness. There's that which Iain M. Banks termed, "the elegance of the newly matured." By that, I mean something which is natural, and of the natural world and natural beauty. That cat over there might have a slightly squished face and a weird toe, but hell, it's still a cat. You don't have to have much in common with women/men. Dress neatly and be well groomed. Genuinely have fun with something and genuinely be yourself. Do socialize, but don't limit yourself by thinking that bros or sociopaths need to rule your life. Do try dancing and see if you genuinely have fun with that. If you do, then know that it's very potent, but you have to be in the moment to let the real magic happen. Actually, that last part applies to everything else as well. Most 20-somethings, males and females, are too mired in their preconceptions and their contention in the social hierarchy competition to have a full appreciation of their own natural beauty. (And often, each other's.)
  • arkis22 8y ago
    Are you saying that the men here aren't being empathetic because they feel like when they talk to women they get called creepy and therefore don't want to? Please, be specific. Otherwise it just sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
    • yosito 8y ago
      Specifically, dismissive comments full of excuses like "I'm unattractive and women aren't nice to me" are lacking empathy.
      • arkis22 8y ago
        It is not dismissive if it's true.
        • yosito 8y ago
          That's not how that works. ^ This comment is me being dismissive of you, and it's also true.
          • arkis22 8y ago
            You have the right to be dismissive, but you don't have the right of proving me wrong without arguing against my point with a coherent argument. You are basically saying that women have never treated men differently based on their attractiveness, which is absurd.
            • yosito 8y ago
              > you don't have the right of proving me wrong without arguing against my point Did you have a point? I missed it. The closest thing I've seen to you making a point in this thread was when you said "the problem is perhaps with you". > You are basically saying that women have never treated men differently based on their attractiveness That's not what I'm saying. But I'm tired of repeating myself, so please re-read my previous comments.
• turingcompeteme 8y ago
  They didn't say rude, they mentioned empathy. Julia Enthoven shared her experience as a Woman in tech, and this thread is filled with nitpicking, asking for sources, disagreement, alternate theories, debates, etc. There is no empathy here. So I'll start: Good for her for sharing her thoughts and experiences. It's a tough topic to talk about, and as we see here and elsewhere, people will immediately pick apart everything you say. Individual experiences like these are useful to read about for people like me who recognize that there is a problem but don't really know what to do about it. So thank you, Julia. I'm sorry it is such a difficult topic, but I hope you keep talking about this and that others are encouraged to do so as well.
  • daenz 8y ago
    Another way to look at the comments is to look at the audience. HackerNews readers are typically hard problem solvers. They discuss theories and solutions, and can't be afraid of avoiding potential causes because they make people uncomfortable. So while your post has empathy, it doesn't really push the solution-finding process forward in the way that other, more active (vs passive), posts do.
    • yosito 8y ago
      You can't be sure you're offering a solution to the right problem if you haven't taken the time to empathize with what the problem is first.
      • daenz 8y ago
        And passive empathy without action is pointless. How much data needs to be gathered before an action becomes clear? Should we all not take any action until then?
        • yosito 8y ago
          I haven't seen any actions recommended. Just people nitpicking everything they think is wrong with a woman's opinion.