4 ms·

I have to admit if you only started programming after you went to University your going to struggle with the course and afterwards work. You would not expect t

I have to admit if you only started programming after you went to University your going to struggle with the course and afterwards work. You would not expect to do a Degree in English lit and have done no reading of the cannon before getting to university.

mjmahone17 9y ago
The idea that, if you have no experience programming going into college, you’ll struggle, is strange to me. About a third of my graduating CS class had no prior experience. Did we take more time to finish the first semester projects? Sometimes. But after the first semester prior experience seemed to have very little effect on class performance.
- ghaff 9y ago
  I think it does depend on the curriculum. I have experience programming, although I don’t really do it professionally. I’ve taken an intro programming MOOC course from an elite school and I have trouble believing someone coming in completely cold would have a chance. (Admittedly in a campus environment there would be TAs and other students but the contrast to when I took intro programming at school was night and day.)
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  You're assuming CS class performance correlates with ability. Most of the people on my CS course hadn't programmed before, and they mostly all passed. But many of them couldn't code at graduation and went into non-programming jobs. They passed anyway because the university carefully rigged the course to ensure it was possible to get good grades despite being unable to write any sort of non-trivial program. After all what are they going to do, constantly fail 90% of their class and attract questions about their own competence as teachers?
ghaff 9y ago
I’m honestly not so sure about that. The number of Western classics the average incoming English major has read is probably pretty small. And it really isn’t true of just about any other branch of engineering or science. How many bridges do you think someone majoring in civil engineering has designed? The fact that a lot of CS curricula only address those who have been programming as a hobby is a bug not a feature.
- walshemj 9y ago
  Many other countries mandate that you study at school the subject (or direct precursors) you take at Uni. You not going to study Physics at Oxbridge if you don't have GCSE and A levels in the Subject why is EE and CS considered different. Some lists of the "English" cannon are 200+ texts and that's not counting some of the classical authors you should have read - and that's not counting any BAME texts you might want to look at for diversity.
  - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
    The English cannon should be shot. :-) The word you're looking for is "canon".
    - walshemj 9y ago
      And Dyslexia sucks :-)
      - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
        And now I feel like a heel for picking on your spelling. :-<
- troupe 9y ago
  > The number of Western classics the average incoming English major has read is probably pretty small. You think there are a lot of kids declaring English Literature as their major who haven't really read any English literature? What type of college are you assuming?
  - ghaff 9y ago
    I think there are a lot of kids who declare English majors who took a fairly typical high school curriculum. Which is to say that they read a fairly modest number of "classic" books for school and liked reading various things on their own. They have an interest and ability to study English lit. That's a very different level from what it takes to get into, say, Juilliard in the arts or what some seem to expect with respect to programming/CS.
always_good 9y ago
Sounds little more than a self-aggrandizing belief to me. The thought that other people can't run your gauntlet. You'd be surprised that not only can they, but all they need is more motivation or discipline and then they can lap you. Just like someone who didn't learn to exercise until later in life.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
UncleMeat 9y ago
The chair of the CS department at Stanford majored in Trombone.
- troupe 9y ago
  Alex Aiken double majored in Music and CS.
wilsonnb 9y ago
I had a very smart and talented professor for several undergraduate classes who entered the computer science field after getting an BA in Music and a PhD in Musicology. It didn't seem to slow him down. The only thing I programmed before I switched from a music major to computer science was a TI-83 calculator for a few weeks in the 8th grade. Technically that counts as experience but I have a feeling you meant more extensive experience. Regardless of whether my experience counted or not, I find the notion that only those who start programming before university will not struggle to be ridiculous.
sidlls 9y ago
There's a big difference to formal exposure in a programming class in high school and a lifetime of hobbyist tinkering with tech.

mjmahone17 9y ago

The idea that, if you have no experience programming going into college, you’ll struggle, is strange to me. About a third of my graduating CS class had no prior experience. Did we take more time to finish the first semester projects? Sometimes. But after the first semester prior experience seemed to have very little effect on class performance.

ghaff 9y ago
I think it does depend on the curriculum. I have experience programming, although I don’t really do it professionally. I’ve taken an intro programming MOOC course from an elite school and I have trouble believing someone coming in completely cold would have a chance. (Admittedly in a campus environment there would be TAs and other students but the contrast to when I took intro programming at school was night and day.)
peoplewindow 9y ago
You're assuming CS class performance correlates with ability. Most of the people on my CS course hadn't programmed before, and they mostly all passed. But many of them couldn't code at graduation and went into non-programming jobs. They passed anyway because the university carefully rigged the course to ensure it was possible to get good grades despite being unable to write any sort of non-trivial program. After all what are they going to do, constantly fail 90% of their class and attract questions about their own competence as teachers?

ghaff 9y ago

I’m honestly not so sure about that. The number of Western classics the average incoming English major has read is probably pretty small. And it really isn’t true of just about any other branch of engineering or science. How many bridges do you think someone majoring in civil engineering has designed? The fact that a lot of CS curricula only address those who have been programming as a hobby is a bug not a feature.

walshemj 9y ago
Many other countries mandate that you study at school the subject (or direct precursors) you take at Uni. You not going to study Physics at Oxbridge if you don't have GCSE and A levels in the Subject why is EE and CS considered different. Some lists of the "English" cannon are 200+ texts and that's not counting some of the classical authors you should have read - and that's not counting any BAME texts you might want to look at for diversity.
- AnimalMuppet 9y ago
  The English cannon should be shot. :-) The word you're looking for is "canon".
  - walshemj 9y ago
    And Dyslexia sucks :-)
    - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
      And now I feel like a heel for picking on your spelling. :-<
troupe 9y ago
> The number of Western classics the average incoming English major has read is probably pretty small. You think there are a lot of kids declaring English Literature as their major who haven't really read any English literature? What type of college are you assuming?
- ghaff 9y ago
  I think there are a lot of kids who declare English majors who took a fairly typical high school curriculum. Which is to say that they read a fairly modest number of "classic" books for school and liked reading various things on their own. They have an interest and ability to study English lit. That's a very different level from what it takes to get into, say, Juilliard in the arts or what some seem to expect with respect to programming/CS.

always_good 9y ago

Sounds little more than a self-aggrandizing belief to me. The thought that other people can't run your gauntlet. You'd be surprised that not only can they, but all they need is more motivation or discipline and then they can lap you. Just like someone who didn't learn to exercise until later in life.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

UncleMeat 9y ago

The chair of the CS department at Stanford majored in Trombone.

troupe 9y ago
Alex Aiken double majored in Music and CS.

wilsonnb 9y ago

I had a very smart and talented professor for several undergraduate classes who entered the computer science field after getting an BA in Music and a PhD in Musicology. It didn't seem to slow him down. The only thing I programmed before I switched from a music major to computer science was a TI-83 calculator for a few weeks in the 8th grade. Technically that counts as experience but I have a feeling you meant more extensive experience. Regardless of whether my experience counted or not, I find the notion that only those who start programming before university will not struggle to be ridiculous.

sidlls 9y ago

There's a big difference to formal exposure in a programming class in high school and a lifetime of hobbyist tinkering with tech.