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I have a talented, and wonderful, female dev on my team. One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers". When I asked
by JPKab 8y ago
I have a talented, and wonderful, female dev on my team.
One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers".
When I asked for specifics, she couldn't provide them. She simply stated it was a "feeling".
The one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor.
But definitely challenged her to try to focus on actions rather than "vibes".
- thucydidesofusa 8y agoIt's funny how that works. I heard one man say to a woman that he didn't schedule a meeting for a particular time because he saw that she had a conflicting meeting. Later that same woman described (to another woman) that the man had been "creeping on her calendar". If it weren't for society's deference to women's feelings, that would probably be read as a hostile comment.
- jrs95 8y agoThere's definitely a bit of a double standard here. I overhear comments like this fairly regularly. It's just normal and accepted behavior. (I wouldn't go as far as to say society generally has "deference to women's feelings", though.)
- thucydidesofusa 8y agoA sizable fraction of restraining orders are granted on women's feelings. And look at conversations around the social relations of men and women - women have rights and men have responsibilities. Women get to abort fetuses and unilaterally give children up for adoption, men get locked up if they dont pay child support. If you're a man go into public with a woman and get her to cry. Measure how long it takes until someone angrily asks you "what did you do".
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jessaustin 8y agoHaha crying is a great emotional hack. Most people are helplessly vulnerable to it. Over the weekend I was swimming with the family. We hadn't seen any neighbors all day. My brother threw his son into the pool, surprising him enough that he started crying. In 2 seconds, multiple neighbors were out on their lanai, staring suspiciously at the carnage down at the pool.
- ropeadopepope 8y agoI don't know why you're downvoted. My 4 year old niece cries all the time if she thinks it will help her get her way. The crying stops on a dime as soon as she realizes it isn't working.
- jessaustin 8y agoThe downvotes, now mostly corrected, were probably from people who don't spend much time around children. When they hear crying, it must be that of an adult woman [0]. Therefore it signifies something very important. Or maybe their brains are just easily hacked. Few people want to consider that latter possibility. [0] adult men also cry, but when they do so in public it is usually interpreted in radically different fashion...
- lanius 8y agoIsn't checking attendees' schedules for conflicts standard procedure when scheduling meetings?
- thucydidesofusa 8y agoIt's standard procedure but also a transgression against this woman if a man does it and isn't sufficiently attractive.
- 21 8y agoOnce I was searching for the definition of a slang word and ended up on a teen forum. One question there was along the line "What would you do if a boy you don't know came next to you and said you are pretty". One answer was: "If he was cute I would make out with him, if not I would yell: Get lost freak".
- bitL 8y agoThere is definitely something else going on in the background: https://twitter.com/ekp/status/991817194987114496 https://twitter.com/ekp/status/991817194987114496 I frankly found this shocking and absolutely disgusting.
- ropeadopepope 8y agoBe attractive. Don't be unattractive. Your job now depends on it. Unless you work 100% remote and don't use video chat.
- pseudalopex 8y ago"Incels" are a self-identified group that don't represent all sexually frustrated men, and "What are you going to do about it?" can have answers besides "root them out and fire them".
- ropeadopepope 8y agoNot in this case. To some women, all 'creepy' men are potential rapists and now, thanks to the media, potential terrorists too. Do you really think women are going to 'feel safe' in their working environment if there is even one man there who is 'creepy'?
- xywalters 8y agoDoes she have any demonstrable creative output or is she just a bureaucrat whom one can ignore?
- jessaustin 8y agoThanks for reminding me why I don't Twitter, I guess. That thread is an atrocity from top to bottom. Previously I had sort of admired Pao, in a certain way.
- custos 8y agoThere was a study done on creepiness awhile back. Pretty interesting read: https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.newideapsych.2016.03.003 https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.newideapsych.20...
- yosito 8y agoInteresting that creepiness is associated so strongly with non-normative behavior.
- cimmanom 8y agoI think some of "creepy" is lack of responsiveness to social cues. Creeps are men whom you don't trust to take "no" for an answer and men whom you don't trust will ask in the first place instead of just taking (ogling, touching, rape). There are geeks and bros and attractive and unattractive men in both columns; but geeks who aren't good at decoding and reacting appropriately to subtle social cues tend to trigger this reaction more often than bros whose social facility masks an underlying lack of respect for bodily and emotional autonomy.
- meheleventyone 8y agoOne way to possibly look at this is that she opened up to you because she felt you might understand, to her you responded sceptically and out of professional self-interest she downplayed the whole thing. That doesn’t mean those guys are necessarily creepers but that you’ve definitely lost her trust.
- Zarath 8y agoWhat would you suggest a proper response is... "yeah, I know!"? To me, asking "what do you mean?" is a perfectly valid response to someone openly name calling people you know.
- meheleventyone 8y agoI presume from the general description the woman in question is a report so this is less gossip and more opening up to a manager. You’re dealing with another person sharing something that is probably emotionally difficult for them to say. I’d suggest a subtler approach than immediately busting in with the evidence requests. It’s a slower process which is neither immediately believing or disbelieving the accusation but taking it seriously. Being open to the possibility and seeing where it leads rather than shutting things down because it’s uncomfortable. Because presumably the woman is also someone you know that you wouldn’t want to be hurt as well.
- Mythanar 8y agoDidn't you just describe the downsides in dealing with women in perfect detail? That complicated attempts at telepathing how emotional it is for them, "subtler approaches", "slower processes", "shutting things down because it's uncomfortable". None of that is needed when both parties are males. Not to mention the entire possibility of that scenario happening is then about nil to begin with.
- dang 8y ago> the downsides in dealing with women Between that and "skip the females" this account has gone beyond garden-variety flamewar into uglier incivility and I'm going to ban it. Twice in one thread is more than a slip. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and email us a reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- modbait 8y agoWow, that's seriously unprofessional (of her).
- stcredzero 8y agoThe one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor. It's both. There was, in our ancestor's state-of-nature, a very high social and reproductive opportunity cost associated with the worst possible actions of a "below-par" male. This would have been true even before the advent of language. Furthermore, note that the opposite of the above is true with an "above-par" male. I think this explains a lot of female behavior with respect to men who are more and less attractive.