5 ms·

Good night. Once upon a time in 1983, my grandparents bought a mobile home and put it out on rural property. They paid $300 for the water company to install a w

by esaym 8y ago

Good night. Once upon a time in 1983, my grandparents bought a mobile home and put it out on rural property. They paid $300 for the water company to install a water meter and about $1500 for a septic tank install. Now I'm trying to do the same thing (and on the same property). The water meter is $5,000 (cash only in full), and the septic tank is $15,000. If I was also required to have solar, I'd really be screwed... Starting to think that working in Tech isn't even worth it anymore. We don't have big government lobbyists making rules to make software more complicated 'just because' every year and thus driving cost up (and making me more money). If my math is right, I'm pretty sure per my sad story above, I'm estimating that the septic people I am trying to work with are pulling in $3k-$5k+ (profit) a week in septic installs (its only a husband and wife outfit and in an area where rent is less than $1k a month....)

blang 8y ago
Just in case anyone was curious (I was) $1500 in 1983 is $3758.34 in 2018
- lev99 8y ago
  That means the real cost of installing a septic tank increased 4x. Although, we don't know how similar the two projects are. Maybe one has more rock to dig through, the tank is farther away, or new tanks are better than 1980s tanks in some ways. There are many possible answers other than the cost of installing a septic tank outpaced inflation.
  - esaym 8y ago
    >Although, we don't know how similar the two projects are They are similar in that the requirements for tank size are the same and the dirt is the same (same property). What is different is caused by the regulations. The style put in in 1983 is a traditional 1000 gallon tank going out to a leach field with about 100ft of perforated pipe (known as a 'traditional' system'). But traditional systems are now banned for this soil type (clay content > 50%, even though they still work fine if designed right). The current price for a traditional system is now about $5500. But since it is banned, I have to install a 'Evapotranspirative (ET) system' which involves digging two 20'x80' pits and filling it with a special 'sandy loam' soil (which is not native to the area and has to be trucked in) and then running the perforated pipe in that. It's two to three times the work and an extra $2k - $4k in soil costs.
  - trumped 8y ago
    Or maybe he needs additional quotes...
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    Environmental regulations are more strict today too -- one corner of my grandparents (large) yard was perpetually swampy and us kids were warned to stay away -- turned out that it was runoff from an uphill neighbor's septic leach field, and it had been like that for decades. I don't think such a thing would be possible with today's regulations. I'm not even sure it was acceptable 30 years ago, but my grandparents never complained about it and were on good terms with the neighbors.
tmh79 8y ago
they probably have a lot of overhead for the following things: office rental, increasing cost of septic tank hardware itself increased environmental regulations increase cost of permitting (money and time) with local government impact fees maybe increased insurance costs people are making money on this, I just doubt its your tank installer
supercanuck 8y ago
> $3k-$5k+ (profit) a week in septic installs Did you factor in healthcare?
- esaym 8y ago
  No as I am comparing apples to apples here as I am 1099, paid by the hour, and they are a sole proprietor. Yes they have different expenses than I do, I buy a $300 laptop off of ebay every couple of years whereas they probably buy a $30,000 backhoe every couple of decades. But still... a little blue collar work with more and more regulations making it take longer and be more profitable is starting to sound lucrative.
  - r00fus 8y ago
    Is it regulations or other rent seeking that have caused inflation? Do you think the cost of living increases in your he past decade are due to regulations?
justherefortart 8y ago
Dig a well instead?
- s0rce 8y ago
  Still need septic.
- esaym 8y ago
  A well is for fresh water while septic is for... well not so fresh water. I have considered doing the whole job myself (I mean how hard can digging with a backhoe be?!) and violating all the regulations that make is so expensive, but whether you dump your RV's holding tank into a protected water zone or install an illegal septic system, you are still dealing with the environmental health department and they won't be pleased if/when they find out.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    Your septic systems needs to be professionally designed, but you can hire that separate from the install. In fact I would advise you to hire the design first separately and only after you have a design get bids on the install. My grandpa got bids from several design/installers, and only after the contract was signed did he discover that all the design/install bids in the county were for a more expensive mound system. My uncle next door learned and hired the design first and then tracked down the one installed in the county that would do the cheaper system that was designed.
    - esaym 8y ago
      That is what I am trying to do. The designer doesn't seem to be helping much with getting the price down though. He is basically just following the state requirements exactly and not putting any thought into any exemptions that might lower the price.
  - justherefortart 8y ago
    No shit. Digging a well, in addition to septic. 15k is fucking stupid for a septic tank but it's California. 5k for a well would be ridiculous as well. So digging a well, would save over 5k for water, plus the monthly charges. I guess I should have specified. I thought saying "Dig a well" was relatively self explanatory in the fact it would likely save money not only in the short run but over the long run as well.
hkmurakami 8y ago
Solar is tech though? And there was definitely lobbying by the solar industry involved here.
gascan 8y ago
If I was also required to have solar, I'd really be screwed... So, what do you do for electricity then? Most people developing rural property near where I live love solar, they can't get enough, as it lets them go off-grid and avoid paying electricity hookup fees.
- esaym 8y ago
  I'm not that rural. The price for the electric run is $350 for new poles and the service is about $0.10 p/kwh. I'm fine with adding solar. I simply don't have the money right now. And I am not getting a mortgage as the 'just add it to your mortgage' attitude is what has lead to so many (non protested) price hikes in the first place. So adding 'just another' $10k to the price means I get to wait so many extra months to save money before I can even build.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    If you're going to refuse bog standard conservative financing options that have been used for centuries, your difficulties are mainly self-imposed.
    - esaym 8y ago
      I don't know how standard a mortgage was 30+ years ago. I do know the interest rates were higher and they weren't handed out like candy as they are now. My grandfather bought a brand new house in 1972 for $12,000, paid cash. And my parents built their first house in 1990 and paid cash as well. They moved and built several other houses all with cash as well. Is it too much to ask that I be able to pay cash for a not so great but brand new mobile home?
dragonwriter 8y ago
> We don't have big government lobbyists making rules to make software more complicated 'just because' every year Yes, we do, they just focus on specific large software markets (in the last couple decades, health IT has been a huge area for this.)
- Xt-6 8y ago
  GDPR?
- mywittyname 8y ago
  Also, Turbotax.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
If septic installs are so profitable, perhaps you should get into the business. Why do you need a new water meter?
- esaym 8y ago
  Most places will want one water meter per house and that was the case with me as I was adding a new house to existing property. But since they wanted $5k up front, I ended up tying into the meter that was already there for a relative's house, which is against their rules but oh well.

by esaym 8y ago

blang 8y ago

Just in case anyone was curious (I was) $1500 in 1983 is $3758.34 in 2018

lev99 8y ago
That means the real cost of installing a septic tank increased 4x. Although, we don't know how similar the two projects are. Maybe one has more rock to dig through, the tank is farther away, or new tanks are better than 1980s tanks in some ways. There are many possible answers other than the cost of installing a septic tank outpaced inflation.
- esaym 8y ago
  >Although, we don't know how similar the two projects are They are similar in that the requirements for tank size are the same and the dirt is the same (same property). What is different is caused by the regulations. The style put in in 1983 is a traditional 1000 gallon tank going out to a leach field with about 100ft of perforated pipe (known as a 'traditional' system'). But traditional systems are now banned for this soil type (clay content > 50%, even though they still work fine if designed right). The current price for a traditional system is now about $5500. But since it is banned, I have to install a 'Evapotranspirative (ET) system' which involves digging two 20'x80' pits and filling it with a special 'sandy loam' soil (which is not native to the area and has to be trucked in) and then running the perforated pipe in that. It's two to three times the work and an extra $2k - $4k in soil costs.
- trumped 8y ago
  Or maybe he needs additional quotes...
- Johnny555 8y ago
  Environmental regulations are more strict today too -- one corner of my grandparents (large) yard was perpetually swampy and us kids were warned to stay away -- turned out that it was runoff from an uphill neighbor's septic leach field, and it had been like that for decades. I don't think such a thing would be possible with today's regulations. I'm not even sure it was acceptable 30 years ago, but my grandparents never complained about it and were on good terms with the neighbors.

tmh79 8y ago

they probably have a lot of overhead for the following things: office rental, increasing cost of septic tank hardware itself increased environmental regulations increase cost of permitting (money and time) with local government impact fees maybe increased insurance costs people are making money on this, I just doubt its your tank installer

supercanuck 8y ago

> $3k-$5k+ (profit) a week in septic installs Did you factor in healthcare?

esaym 8y ago
No as I am comparing apples to apples here as I am 1099, paid by the hour, and they are a sole proprietor. Yes they have different expenses than I do, I buy a $300 laptop off of ebay every couple of years whereas they probably buy a $30,000 backhoe every couple of decades. But still... a little blue collar work with more and more regulations making it take longer and be more profitable is starting to sound lucrative.
- r00fus 8y ago
  Is it regulations or other rent seeking that have caused inflation? Do you think the cost of living increases in your he past decade are due to regulations?

justherefortart 8y ago

Dig a well instead?

s0rce 8y ago
Still need septic.
esaym 8y ago
A well is for fresh water while septic is for... well not so fresh water. I have considered doing the whole job myself (I mean how hard can digging with a backhoe be?!) and violating all the regulations that make is so expensive, but whether you dump your RV's holding tank into a protected water zone or install an illegal septic system, you are still dealing with the environmental health department and they won't be pleased if/when they find out.
- bluGill 8y ago
  Your septic systems needs to be professionally designed, but you can hire that separate from the install. In fact I would advise you to hire the design first separately and only after you have a design get bids on the install. My grandpa got bids from several design/installers, and only after the contract was signed did he discover that all the design/install bids in the county were for a more expensive mound system. My uncle next door learned and hired the design first and then tracked down the one installed in the county that would do the cheaper system that was designed.
  - esaym 8y ago
    That is what I am trying to do. The designer doesn't seem to be helping much with getting the price down though. He is basically just following the state requirements exactly and not putting any thought into any exemptions that might lower the price.
- justherefortart 8y ago
  No shit. Digging a well, in addition to septic. 15k is fucking stupid for a septic tank but it's California. 5k for a well would be ridiculous as well. So digging a well, would save over 5k for water, plus the monthly charges. I guess I should have specified. I thought saying "Dig a well" was relatively self explanatory in the fact it would likely save money not only in the short run but over the long run as well.

hkmurakami 8y ago

Solar is tech though? And there was definitely lobbying by the solar industry involved here.

gascan 8y ago

If I was also required to have solar, I'd really be screwed... So, what do you do for electricity then? Most people developing rural property near where I live love solar, they can't get enough, as it lets them go off-grid and avoid paying electricity hookup fees.

esaym 8y ago
I'm not that rural. The price for the electric run is $350 for new poles and the service is about $0.10 p/kwh. I'm fine with adding solar. I simply don't have the money right now. And I am not getting a mortgage as the 'just add it to your mortgage' attitude is what has lead to so many (non protested) price hikes in the first place. So adding 'just another' $10k to the price means I get to wait so many extra months to save money before I can even build.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  If you're going to refuse bog standard conservative financing options that have been used for centuries, your difficulties are mainly self-imposed.
  - esaym 8y ago
    I don't know how standard a mortgage was 30+ years ago. I do know the interest rates were higher and they weren't handed out like candy as they are now. My grandfather bought a brand new house in 1972 for $12,000, paid cash. And my parents built their first house in 1990 and paid cash as well. They moved and built several other houses all with cash as well. Is it too much to ask that I be able to pay cash for a not so great but brand new mobile home?

dragonwriter 8y ago

> We don't have big government lobbyists making rules to make software more complicated 'just because' every year Yes, we do, they just focus on specific large software markets (in the last couple decades, health IT has been a huge area for this.)

Xt-6 8y ago
GDPR?
mywittyname 8y ago
Also, Turbotax.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

If septic installs are so profitable, perhaps you should get into the business. Why do you need a new water meter?

esaym 8y ago
Most places will want one water meter per house and that was the case with me as I was adding a new house to existing property. But since they wanted $5k up front, I ended up tying into the meter that was already there for a relative's house, which is against their rules but oh well.