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> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy. As an unattractive computer nerd, I've been regularly reminded my entire life that I am creepy
by modbait 8y ago
> Go befriend a girl in your class or company. It’s not creepy.
As an unattractive computer nerd, I've been regularly reminded my entire life that I am creepy. Skipping.
- StreamBright 8y agoDont give up, learn the basics of human interactions and get interested in people, your life will change.
- ninkendo 8y agoI think it's a bit unfair to assume that people who are considered creepy must not know basic human interactions. A lot of people's initial opinion of you is guided subconsciously by how attractive you are. It's foolish to believe that looks don't play a huge role.
- wilsonnb 8y agoA lot of the attractiveness that they focus on isn't necessarily unchangeable, though. Many people can significantly improve the first impression they make by having a nice haircut that fits your head shape and clothes that fit your body shape well, match each other well, and aren't out of place for the current season.
- modbait 8y agoSo instead of "befriend her", you're suggesting "get new clothes and a nice haircut and then befriend her"? No thanks--I have enough friends.
- wilsonnb 8y agoI'm suggesting that people who feel like others unfairly judge them as creepy and don't like it use the modifiable aspects of their physical appearance to change how people see them. Apparently you don't care if you are perceived as creepy, which is fine, but other people do care and would be interested in doing something about it.
- yosito 8y agoScience says creepiness is more about how well you can follow social norms, not about how attractive you are. https://dacemirror.sci-hub.tw/journal-article/189a70c9d3a2a3218006ee96d3dce0be/mcandrew2016.pdf https://dacemirror.sci-hub.tw/journal-article/189a70c9d3a2a3...
- scrollaway 8y agoPeople who do that get regularly called creepy for just trying to talk to women. You're telling someone not to give up on the very thing getting them called out as "a creep". Hell in some countries, you get called creepy for doing that for trying to befriend anyone outside of very specific social situations. When I was in Stockholm, approaching strangers and striking up a conversation was seen as generally rude.
- jochung 8y agoYep. For an ideology that seems extremely concerned about how words like "chairman" or "craftsmanship" are perpetuating harmful gender biases, feminists sure never seem to notice that "creep" and "coward" are implicitly male.
- yosito 8y agoCreepiness just means that you don't follow social norms so people aren't sure if you're a threat or not. Learning social norms will help. It's science: https://dacemirror.sci-hub.tw/journal-article/189a70c9d3a2a3218006ee96d3dce0be/mcandrew2016.pdf https://dacemirror.sci-hub.tw/journal-article/189a70c9d3a2a3...
- erobbins 8y agoAdvice like this is similar to telling a depressed person to just be happier.
- blattimwind 8y agohttps://i.huffpost.com/gen/2271298/thumbs/o-ROBOT-HUGS-570.jpg?6 https://i.huffpost.com/gen/2271298/thumbs/o-ROBOT-HUGS-570.j...
- rhino369 8y agoThe treatment social anxiety is often more exposure. Nothing is worse than just avoiding the things that give you anxiety.
- thaumaturgy 8y agoSpeaking from personal experience, this advice isn't as bad as the votes and replies are making it look. I spent most of my time as a kid screwing around with computers and other whatsits, so I was really withdrawn and socially awkward after high school, and gave off the kind of accidental creeper aura that people here are talking about. (A mix of shyness, over-sharing, nonexistent small talk, and bad body language.) Then I took a break from the tech industry for a while and ended up getting a job as a climbing instructor. It was an amazing change in a short period of time. I learned how to socialize quickly and easily with people I'd never met before, went out for beers, learned how to show people that they could trust me with their safety or their kid's safety really fast (because kids' birthday parties were a big revenue stream...). Any kind of job or hobby that requires you to be social to do well at it should work just fine. (Retail and food service don't count.) I'm sure there are people who are so naturally awkward that this is useless advice, but I suspect there are far more people who could benefit from spending more time around people than they do around electronics.
- rexaliquid 8y agoOrganized roleplaying campaigns could be a good social hobby that is fun for the nerd brain, too.
- StreamBright 8y agoI dont mind HN mob downvotes, I hope it helped OP
- blablabla123 8y agoSome time ago we moved into a new office and I placed myself next to the only girl in our tean. Shortly after I felt a little creepy but she actually seemed to appreciate it, also because she mostly got non-technical tasks. So I also thought some technical collaboration would be possible, in fact we once talked about that. Anyways, a week later the rest of our team moved in, placing themselves at the other end of the room from where we were sitting. So the other day my boss approached me and said: hey look, why are you sitting here? Move to us. Yay, now I'm sitting in the corner and I can talk to nobody! Long story short, WTF. Other people make sure you feel creepy, if don't do already.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mywittyname 8y agoI know the feeling. Something society doesn't accept that attraction plays a huge role in social development at a young age. An "ugly" person is not likely to develop the experience needed to feel comfortable befriending a member of the opposite sex at a young age. The other person can't help but be uncomfortable with the idea that you might be romantically interested in them. It gets better with age though. I've found that telling women I'm married makes them much, much more friendly and engaging.
- hkmurakami 8y agoI feel like I am writing something ridiculous, but it's not uncommon for an unmarried woman to wear a wedding band to preempt advances by men. Could we have a world where unmarried men who are concerned about being perceived as making an advance will wear a wedding band to send a signal that they are not interested in the woman they are talking to? (obviously some/many married men make inappropriate advances but perhaps this helps somewhat?)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- groceryheist 8y agoThere are also female computer nerds that are not conventionally attractive. It might be worth trying to make friends with someone less intimidating.
- JPKab 8y agoI have a talented, and wonderful, female dev on my team. One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers". When I asked for specifics, she couldn't provide them. She simply stated it was a "feeling". The one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor. But definitely challenged her to try to focus on actions rather than "vibes".
- thucydidesofusa 8y agoIt's funny how that works. I heard one man say to a woman that he didn't schedule a meeting for a particular time because he saw that she had a conflicting meeting. Later that same woman described (to another woman) that the man had been "creeping on her calendar". If it weren't for society's deference to women's feelings, that would probably be read as a hostile comment.
- jrs95 8y agoThere's definitely a bit of a double standard here. I overhear comments like this fairly regularly. It's just normal and accepted behavior. (I wouldn't go as far as to say society generally has "deference to women's feelings", though.)
- thucydidesofusa 8y agoA sizable fraction of restraining orders are granted on women's feelings. And look at conversations around the social relations of men and women - women have rights and men have responsibilities. Women get to abort fetuses and unilaterally give children up for adoption, men get locked up if they dont pay child support. If you're a man go into public with a woman and get her to cry. Measure how long it takes until someone angrily asks you "what did you do".
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- southphillyman 8y agoMaybe this observation is more apt for dating interactions vs. coworker relationships but......intelligence seems to be VERY high on women's checklist after a certain age. Not to mention the stability/security that can be leveraged via trading on your intelligence.
- adrianratnapala 8y agoAwkwardly, StreamBright and ninkendo are both right. My best advice about threading the needle is to concentrate on processes rather than goals. Don't worry about befriending anyone; but recognise that you have a little leeway to make small-talk to any human before it becomes odd. Use it (with everyone) for practice at getting funnier and more charming. Have fun practicing, let results take care of themselves. Something similar goes for becoming less "unattractive". Don't worry about your body shape, but learn to enjoy exercise (perhaps you do this already). Or with fashion and personal grooming, figure out what you like and so develop your personal style as you bathe and dress each day.
- yosito 8y agoYou're conflating attraction and friendship. Being creepy means that you seem to have unwelcome intentions. If you're saying that your attractiveness is the reason you've been told you're creepy, the reason for your creepiness is that your intentions are to attract someone, not to befriend them. Fix your intentions if you don't want to be creepy. And listen, I'm not saying you shouldn't want to attract someone, just that if another person isn't attracted to you, it's creepy to "befriend" them while hiding other desires. You've got two options in that case, 1) change your desires and genuinely appreciate them as a friend or aquaintence (it is possible, but takes a certain level of emotional maturity) or 2) Be straightforward and respectful about your desires, and then respect their boundaries if they're not interested realizing that no one is obligated to reciprocate anything.
- jessaustin 8y agoThere is no reason to assume GP was motivated by that intention, in whatever situation you're imagining. You do so from a position of privilege.
- yosito 8y agoI'm not assuming anything about his intentions. I'm saying that to be labeled creepy literally means that someone is suspicious of your intentions. And the solution is to be clear about your intentions or, even better, your lack of intentions when they are unwelcome.
- jessaustin 8y agoYour post literally says: "the reason for your creepiness is that your intentions are to attract someone". GP's post never refers to intentions or situations or behaviors or anything. You are castigating GP for intentions and behaviors that exist entirely in your imagination.
- yosito 8y agoI qualified that statement by saying "If you're saying that your attractiveness is the reason you've been told you're creepy...", because if that's what he's saying, he's admitting his intentions and I don't have to assume. If he's not saying that, then my statement doesn't apply.
- logfromblammo 8y agoAs a nerd that grew up with nerd friends, I have seen firsthand how unsolicited social overtures may be cruelly rebuffed or punished. When one of the consequences may be an uncomfortable conversation with the dean or with HR, it is completely unsurprising that male nerds will not make the first move socially. They have been trained to not do it. Every last behavior that is rewarded as "flirting" from an attractive person is punished as "creepy" when it comes from an unattractive person. The best an ugly can hope for is to suppress their natural social grooming behaviors, and just be relentlessly neutral. It's much better than "creepy", as it still allows for a level of acquaintanceship that makes it possible to display non-physical qualities, such as a particularly well-developed skill, or a sense of humor. "Go befriend a girl... it's not creepy." is something only a non-ugly person would think to say. Of course it's not creepy for them. Parent post is absolutely correct. If you're not pretty, it's creepy. If m'lady wants a friend, m'lady may approach on her own terms.
- dbasedweeb 8y agoHave you decided that your looks are the reason, or been told? You may be assuming that it’s your looks, when it frankly isn’t. In my experience creepy usually means creepy, and creepy poeple lack insight... which is part of what makes them creepy. It might not be looks, but behavior, a sense of anger or discomfort, etc. Women often have to go by their gut instinct with guys, because if they don’t it can end in them being very badly hurt. Any heuristic is likely to generate false positives. Someone who is very anxious or socially awkward may come across as dangerous simply because of the heightened emotional state and failure to respond to social cues. It may also be that there is a strong correlation between “socially awkward” and “unattractive” for obvious reasons. So again, I wouldn’t assume that looks represent cause rather than correlation. For an analogy, it could be like someone who is afraid of dogs being disproportionately bitten by dogs who react to the fear that person has of being bitten.