3 ms·

Umm. No. I don’t wear the same clothes in a desert and a forest. To do so would be foolish. Imposing yourself on others when you have no power to do is not wise

Umm. No. I don’t wear the same clothes in a desert and a forest. To do so would be foolish. Imposing yourself on others when you have no power to do is not wise. I can keep my house clean but can’t expect everyone in my neighborhood to do so.

ams6110 8y ago
But you can choose not to visit the dirty houses. Apple could choose to honor principles and not sell in China. But market share is more important. This is a similar argument we had a couple decades ago about companies doing business in South Africa, which at the time had official racial segregation policies (Apartheid). There was a popular push for divestment and it was fairly successful.
- FussyZeus 8y ago
  > Apple could choose to honor principles and not sell in China. But market share is more important. They're a corporation, their sole ethic is "to make money," full stop, that is the only reason Apple exists. To ignore China as a market would cost them millions if not billions of dollars. Tons of businesses with very ethical practices operate in and with China. China's current anti-privacy stances are unfortunate, but if we refuse to do business with them, all we're doing is giving a leg-up to Chinese corporations who don't even pretend to care about user privacy in the form of an insulated market.
  - notyourday 8y ago
    I'm glad you are starting to acknowledge that Apple will sell its users for money. It is just for now it seems to have other venues to get that money. Except in China where it needs to sell its users to the government in order to be able to extract money from that market right now.
  - pvg 8y ago
    They're a corporation, their sole ethic is "to make money," full stop, that is the only reason Apple exists. That's a reductive and inaccurate trope which also seems at odds with and unrelated to the rest of your comment.
ksk 8y ago
That sounds to me like you're saying Apples core beliefs are simply whatever they fancy depending on the time of the day.
- abc_lisper 8y ago
  Hmm. Let's consider the forces involved here: 1. Apple makes their hardware in China. 2. Apple sells their hardware in China. 3. If Apple doesn't comply with China, 1 could be affected, not just 2. 4. Apple cannot move their hardware manufacturing to US (now), without losing their competitive edge, because everybody makes their hardware in China. Do you think if Apple could be privacy oriented in China, it wouldn't? It simply doesn't have the power to do it in China. Don't equate it to Google, FB and numerous others who despite having a chance to be privacy oriented in US, won't. This is like Cantor's infinities. Sure they are all infinities. But they aren't the same.
  - ksk 8y ago
    To unpack your #1 statement. Lets say that Apple makes their hardware and then ships it out of China. China makes money, gets some jobs out of it, some tech knowhow etc. China has no reason to stop that. Now, apple's desire to sell devices in china that comply with chinese laws (which potentially compromise user privacy) is a separate issue altogether. Business wise, I don't think they can afford to avoid china altogether. So maybe they can simply say that "they're doing the best they can" and take the PR hit.

ams6110 8y ago

But you can choose not to visit the dirty houses. Apple could choose to honor principles and not sell in China. But market share is more important. This is a similar argument we had a couple decades ago about companies doing business in South Africa, which at the time had official racial segregation policies (Apartheid). There was a popular push for divestment and it was fairly successful.

FussyZeus 8y ago
> Apple could choose to honor principles and not sell in China. But market share is more important. They're a corporation, their sole ethic is "to make money," full stop, that is the only reason Apple exists. To ignore China as a market would cost them millions if not billions of dollars. Tons of businesses with very ethical practices operate in and with China. China's current anti-privacy stances are unfortunate, but if we refuse to do business with them, all we're doing is giving a leg-up to Chinese corporations who don't even pretend to care about user privacy in the form of an insulated market.
- notyourday 8y ago
  I'm glad you are starting to acknowledge that Apple will sell its users for money. It is just for now it seems to have other venues to get that money. Except in China where it needs to sell its users to the government in order to be able to extract money from that market right now.
- pvg 8y ago
  They're a corporation, their sole ethic is "to make money," full stop, that is the only reason Apple exists. That's a reductive and inaccurate trope which also seems at odds with and unrelated to the rest of your comment.

ksk 8y ago

That sounds to me like you're saying Apples core beliefs are simply whatever they fancy depending on the time of the day.

abc_lisper 8y ago
Hmm. Let's consider the forces involved here: 1. Apple makes their hardware in China. 2. Apple sells their hardware in China. 3. If Apple doesn't comply with China, 1 could be affected, not just 2. 4. Apple cannot move their hardware manufacturing to US (now), without losing their competitive edge, because everybody makes their hardware in China. Do you think if Apple could be privacy oriented in China, it wouldn't? It simply doesn't have the power to do it in China. Don't equate it to Google, FB and numerous others who despite having a chance to be privacy oriented in US, won't. This is like Cantor's infinities. Sure they are all infinities. But they aren't the same.
- ksk 8y ago
  To unpack your #1 statement. Lets say that Apple makes their hardware and then ships it out of China. China makes money, gets some jobs out of it, some tech knowhow etc. China has no reason to stop that. Now, apple's desire to sell devices in china that comply with chinese laws (which potentially compromise user privacy) is a separate issue altogether. Business wise, I don't think they can afford to avoid china altogether. So maybe they can simply say that "they're doing the best they can" and take the PR hit.