6 ms·

I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?

by zeth___ 8y ago

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
Coinbase transactions are done 'off-chain'.
- zeth___ 8y ago
  So the decentralized solution to a centralized banking system needs a centralized totally not a banking system to work?
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    You'd think this would bother me, but I only keep spending money in coinbase. Keep the rest offline.
pwinnski 8y ago
The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  What is the crazy part? I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000. I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.
  - beojan 8y ago
    And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      No, I do DCA. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp
      - beojan 8y ago
        To buy Bitcoin, sure. When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it.
        ric2b 8y ago
        > When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it. This a completely emotional argument, there's no logic behind it, you could also regret spending $2 at Taco Bell instead of on Bitcoin.
    - ric2b 8y ago
      Just as much as you kicked yourself for spending $2 on Taco Bell instead of buying Bitcoin at the exact same time. It's the same thing.
  - chriswarbo 8y ago
    > If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin. The currency you're using is USD, since that's how Taco Bell set their prices and it's how you're measuring the value of your bitcoins (via the exchange rate). I've yet to see any business set their prices in bitcoin. Everyone accepting bitcoin payment is setting their prices in fiat currency (e.g. $2), and accepting an equivalent amount of bitcoin (based on market rates); i.e. treating bitcoin as a payment gateway rather than a currency.
- icebraining 8y ago
  It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true How so? What matters is the price at the time of transaction, no?
mkirklions 8y ago
Coinbase Peer to Peer using email is free and instant. Shift card had like a 10$ fee for printing the card, but its free and instant. The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins.
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins. So you used a "totally not a bank, but really a bank" bank, eh?
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Why are payment processors/banks bad again? 2FA > a piece of paper under my bed. But also I keep my bitcoin in lots of places, a few bucks in coinbase for free transactions is like keeping cash in my wallet.
    - chriswarbo 8y ago
      > Why are payment processors/banks bad again? It's a matter of opinion. However, the only reason for bitcoin to exist is to avoid banks and payment processors. Hence it's illogical to make heavy use of coinbase/etc. regardless of what opinion you have. Bitcoin has many downsides (volatility, no recourse, vast energy usage, paranoid wallet security, high fees, long confirmation time, etc.) and one upside (no need to trust processors/banks). If you think that processors/banks are bad, then you might find that the upside outweighs the downsides, and make many on-chain bitcoin transactions. Yet you shouldn't use coinbase/etc. in this case, since they're a bank/processor, hence you'd be removing the only upside that bitcoin has. On the other hand, if you don't think that processors/banks are bad, then the upside of bitcoin isn't worth all of the downsides. You might as well use regular currency, with all of its advantages over bitcoin (instant payments, lower fees, lower volatility, recourse, less paranoid security, etc.). In this case there's no need to use coinbase/etc. because there's no need to use bitcoin. Those intermediaries do serve a role in converting between traditional currencies and cryptocurrencies, but it only makes sense to use them occasionally, e.g. buying a stash of bitcoins and immediately 'withdrawing' them to your private, on-chain-only wallet. If you're regularly converting back and forth, or maintaining a non-zero balance on their systems, you would always be better off doing something else (either sticking to fiat, or sticking to crypto).

I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago

Coinbase transactions are done 'off-chain'.

zeth___ 8y ago
So the decentralized solution to a centralized banking system needs a centralized totally not a banking system to work?
- mkirklions 8y ago
  You'd think this would bother me, but I only keep spending money in coinbase. Keep the rest offline.

pwinnski 8y ago

The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.

mkirklions 8y ago
What is the crazy part? I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000. I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.
- beojan 8y ago
  And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    No, I do DCA. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp
    - beojan 8y ago
      To buy Bitcoin, sure. When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it.
      - ric2b 8y ago
        > When it hit $18,000 you would still look back at the $2 (then) worth that you spent at $200 / bitcoin and regret it. This a completely emotional argument, there's no logic behind it, you could also regret spending $2 at Taco Bell instead of on Bitcoin.
  - ric2b 8y ago
    Just as much as you kicked yourself for spending $2 on Taco Bell instead of buying Bitcoin at the exact same time. It's the same thing.
- chriswarbo 8y ago
  > If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin. The currency you're using is USD, since that's how Taco Bell set their prices and it's how you're measuring the value of your bitcoins (via the exchange rate). I've yet to see any business set their prices in bitcoin. Everyone accepting bitcoin payment is setting their prices in fiat currency (e.g. $2), and accepting an equivalent amount of bitcoin (based on market rates); i.e. treating bitcoin as a payment gateway rather than a currency.
icebraining 8y ago
It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true How so? What matters is the price at the time of transaction, no?

mkirklions 8y ago

Coinbase Peer to Peer using email is free and instant. Shift card had like a 10$ fee for printing the card, but its free and instant. The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins.

spookthesunset 8y ago
> The only time I did an on-chain transaction in the last 3 years was moving money to another exchange to buy alt-coins. So you used a "totally not a bank, but really a bank" bank, eh?
- mkirklions 8y ago
  Why are payment processors/banks bad again? 2FA > a piece of paper under my bed. But also I keep my bitcoin in lots of places, a few bucks in coinbase for free transactions is like keeping cash in my wallet.
  - chriswarbo 8y ago
    > Why are payment processors/banks bad again? It's a matter of opinion. However, the only reason for bitcoin to exist is to avoid banks and payment processors. Hence it's illogical to make heavy use of coinbase/etc. regardless of what opinion you have. Bitcoin has many downsides (volatility, no recourse, vast energy usage, paranoid wallet security, high fees, long confirmation time, etc.) and one upside (no need to trust processors/banks). If you think that processors/banks are bad, then you might find that the upside outweighs the downsides, and make many on-chain bitcoin transactions. Yet you shouldn't use coinbase/etc. in this case, since they're a bank/processor, hence you'd be removing the only upside that bitcoin has. On the other hand, if you don't think that processors/banks are bad, then the upside of bitcoin isn't worth all of the downsides. You might as well use regular currency, with all of its advantages over bitcoin (instant payments, lower fees, lower volatility, recourse, less paranoid security, etc.). In this case there's no need to use coinbase/etc. because there's no need to use bitcoin. Those intermediaries do serve a role in converting between traditional currencies and cryptocurrencies, but it only makes sense to use them occasionally, e.g. buying a stash of bitcoins and immediately 'withdrawing' them to your private, on-chain-only wallet. If you're regularly converting back and forth, or maintaining a non-zero balance on their systems, you would always be better off doing something else (either sticking to fiat, or sticking to crypto).