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Speak for yourself. I use bitcoin all the time for payments. Peer to peer using coinbase(email) for free and instant to friends. Shift card for free and insta

Speak for yourself. I use bitcoin all the time for payments. Peer to peer using coinbase(email) for free and instant to friends. Shift card for free and instant at merchants. Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing. The transaction time 'problem' doesnt really exist if you are into crypto, you know how to use it. And I dont trust USD like I trust BTC. Historically Fiat currencies are awful.

jonknee 8y ago
> Historically Fiat currencies are awful Fiat has ushered in an absolutely amazing period of global growth that has made us unbelievably wealthy. But there is inflation, so why not go with the thing that has no history?
- mkirklions 8y ago
  We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. If someone overspent, they had to be smarter until they regained their wealth. Inflation has destroys savings for the masses who keeps cash more than investment. We've seen this a half dozen times in the last 100 years.
  - spookthesunset 8y ago
    > We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. The gold standard was one of the worst fiscal policies ever. Its use was directly responsible for the destruction of millions of lives. Arguing to bring it back shows incredible nativity and a severe lack of history. I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense.
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      > Its use was directly responsible for the destruction of millions of lives. Oh please, war happens for land, population, and resources. Gold is one of the resources. Anyone want to send this kid the link to 'We invaded Iraq because Saddam wanted to use Euros/RMB to trade oil?'
    - ric2b 8y ago
      > I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense. Can you propose some reading material?
  - spankalee 8y ago
    Inflation values future work over past work. It's not inherently bad.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  "Us"? Who, exactly, is "us"? Since around 1980, all the "amazing global growth" has largely gone to those who own and hold financial instruments, while those who make and those who serve have just been treading water all this time. I can't imagine how unbelievably wealthy I would feel if my class's wages had risen commensurate with increases in productivity, but I certainly don't feel all that rich now.
  - astrodust 8y ago
    American wages have been stagnant. Meanwhile the rest of the world has been industrializing. I'm sure it's just a coincidence but the 1980s was the beginning of the "off-shore everything" trend.
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      And yet social mobility has also been stagnant in the developing world for the last 30 years. So offshoring made a few people outside of W.Europe/US more rich in the 80's, but then the party was over for them, and it was back to the wealthy class sucking up all the excess production, everywhere.
zeth___ 8y ago
I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?
- WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
  Coinbase transactions are done 'off-chain'.
  - zeth___ 8y ago
    So the decentralized solution to a centralized banking system needs a centralized totally not a banking system to work?
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      You'd think this would bother me, but I only keep spending money in coinbase. Keep the rest offline.
- pwinnski 8y ago
  The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    What is the crazy part? I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000. I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.
    - beojan 8y ago
      And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?
raducu 8y ago
So, you're actually trusting coinbase, just like I trust my bank.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  With 1000 USD? Sure, thats petty money if I lost it. I dont keep most of my bitcoin in coinbase.
  - dmoy 8y ago
    What's the backup for various failure cases? House fire? I'd guess off-site backups. House fire that kills you? Do you stick recovery instructions to your backup in a will, or how do you leave money to your heirs? (Or just you don't?)
    - mkirklions 8y ago
      Unfortunately I have too much bitcoin to say where I store it. The only thing I will say is that I keep my bitcoin in MANY locations and MANY wallets.
      - cuckcuckspruce 8y ago
        Nobody is going to steal your Dunning-Krugerands
      - dmoy 8y ago
        Right but that would be my worry. If I die and nobody knows how to get at my assets, that really fucks over my heirs. With traditional financial institutions, the courts know how to figure out how to disburse your money after death.
    - shawn 8y ago
      Brainwallet plus multisig.
    - nicky0 8y ago
      Paper recovery seed in bank deposit box.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
gwbas1c 8y ago
Bitcoin is a fiat currency. It's backed by nothing. Encryption keys, and bits on a disk, have absolutely no value whatsoever.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  *not government controlled + infinite my bad
- realusername 8y ago
  Traditional currency isn't backed by anything but its usage as well.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    Traditional currency is backed by the requirement that it be used in transactions conducted with the issuing government, and also by the requirement that it be accepted as a method of payment for all debts under the jurisdiction of that government.
    - realusername 8y ago
      That does not change anything in practice, just ask Venezuela how that goes for them. If people don't believe in your currency it's game over. The only backing traditional currency has is that people believe in them.
      - simias 8y ago
        The problem with Venezuela is definitely not that people stopped believing in the currency. That's a consequence, not the cause. It's not like people are going to wake up some day and stop believing in the dollar. If the economy of the USA was to collapse however, then that would be a problem.
spookthesunset 8y ago
> Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing If bitcoin is "beyond blockchain", than what is it? Just a table of transactions in a Real Database™? If yes, whats the point? You've just layered a very bank-sounding, very-centralized construct on top of your space-age "trustless" decentralized blockchain. How is it at all revolutionary since you've basically gone and re-invented a much shitter version of the credit card and traditional (evil) fiat banking. > And I dont trust USD like I trust BTC. Historically Fiat currencies are awful. I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. Is it the fact that they have so much invested in the concept that they lose the ability to think clearly? Is it a cult? A religion? I'm not sure, but it sure is an interesting phenomenon.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  >I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. I can tell. You seem to think Bitcoin is another inflationary currency. The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that. >How is it at all revolutionary since you've basically gone and re-invented a much shitter version of the credit card and traditional (evil) fiat banking. Like I said, Bitcoin is rare and digital. I think you are complaining about payment processing companies. I have had an excellent experience using these companies with no fees on instant transactions.
  - spookthesunset 8y ago
    > There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. Provably false. Bitcoin has been forked into multiple chains numerous time, creating many more then 21 million tokens. Given that there is no trademark on the term "Bitcoin", some of these forks can rightfully claim themselves to be The True Bitcoin. In addition, there are thousands of other non-forked blockchains that are nearly identical to bitcoin, save for a few minor configuration changes. > Bitcoin is rare and digital. Absolutely false. Bitcoin is digital and infinitely creditable. This has been proven over and over again.
UncleMeat 8y ago
Okay. I make like maybe ten payments to friends per year. Not exactly a killer app.

jonknee 8y ago

> Historically Fiat currencies are awful Fiat has ushered in an absolutely amazing period of global growth that has made us unbelievably wealthy. But there is inflation, so why not go with the thing that has no history?

mkirklions 8y ago
We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. If someone overspent, they had to be smarter until they regained their wealth. Inflation has destroys savings for the masses who keeps cash more than investment. We've seen this a half dozen times in the last 100 years.
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > We've had gold, and it was a massive equalizer between major powers. The gold standard was one of the worst fiscal policies ever. Its use was directly responsible for the destruction of millions of lives. Arguing to bring it back shows incredible nativity and a severe lack of history. I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    > Its use was directly responsible for the destruction of millions of lives. Oh please, war happens for land, population, and resources. Gold is one of the resources. Anyone want to send this kid the link to 'We invaded Iraq because Saddam wanted to use Euros/RMB to trade oil?'
  - ric2b 8y ago
    > I suggest you read up on how horrible of an idea the gold standard was before you spout this kind of nonsense. Can you propose some reading material?
- spankalee 8y ago
  Inflation values future work over past work. It's not inherently bad.
logfromblammo 8y ago
"Us"? Who, exactly, is "us"? Since around 1980, all the "amazing global growth" has largely gone to those who own and hold financial instruments, while those who make and those who serve have just been treading water all this time. I can't imagine how unbelievably wealthy I would feel if my class's wages had risen commensurate with increases in productivity, but I certainly don't feel all that rich now.
- astrodust 8y ago
  American wages have been stagnant. Meanwhile the rest of the world has been industrializing. I'm sure it's just a coincidence but the 1980s was the beginning of the "off-shore everything" trend.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    And yet social mobility has also been stagnant in the developing world for the last 30 years. So offshoring made a few people outside of W.Europe/US more rich in the 80's, but then the party was over for them, and it was back to the wealthy class sucking up all the excess production, everywhere.

zeth___ 8y ago

I am curious, how were you doing any of these things 4 months ago when the average transaction fee was $40?

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
Coinbase transactions are done 'off-chain'.
- zeth___ 8y ago
  So the decentralized solution to a centralized banking system needs a centralized totally not a banking system to work?
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    You'd think this would bother me, but I only keep spending money in coinbase. Keep the rest offline.
pwinnski 8y ago
The question answers itself: they weren't. It also beggars belief that they were regularly spending bitcoins that was shifting in value by hundreds of USD in a matter of hours. The would be irrational to the point of lunacy if true, but I don't believe it is.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  What is the crazy part? I bought BTC at 200, 400, 800, 1200, 3000, 11,000, and 7,000. I like BTC wayyy better than USD. If I need to spend 2$ at taco bell, I'll just use my bitcoin.
  - beojan 8y ago
    And kicked yourself for that $180 Taco Bell when it peaked at $18,000, right?

raducu 8y ago

So, you're actually trusting coinbase, just like I trust my bank.

mkirklions 8y ago
With 1000 USD? Sure, thats petty money if I lost it. I dont keep most of my bitcoin in coinbase.
- dmoy 8y ago
  What's the backup for various failure cases? House fire? I'd guess off-site backups. House fire that kills you? Do you stick recovery instructions to your backup in a will, or how do you leave money to your heirs? (Or just you don't?)
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Unfortunately I have too much bitcoin to say where I store it. The only thing I will say is that I keep my bitcoin in MANY locations and MANY wallets.
    - cuckcuckspruce 8y ago
      Nobody is going to steal your Dunning-Krugerands
    - dmoy 8y ago
      Right but that would be my worry. If I die and nobody knows how to get at my assets, that really fucks over my heirs. With traditional financial institutions, the courts know how to figure out how to disburse your money after death.
  - shawn 8y ago
    Brainwallet plus multisig.
  - nicky0 8y ago
    Paper recovery seed in bank deposit box.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

gwbas1c 8y ago

Bitcoin is a fiat currency. It's backed by nothing. Encryption keys, and bits on a disk, have absolutely no value whatsoever.

mkirklions 8y ago
*not government controlled + infinite my bad
realusername 8y ago
Traditional currency isn't backed by anything but its usage as well.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  Traditional currency is backed by the requirement that it be used in transactions conducted with the issuing government, and also by the requirement that it be accepted as a method of payment for all debts under the jurisdiction of that government.
  - realusername 8y ago
    That does not change anything in practice, just ask Venezuela how that goes for them. If people don't believe in your currency it's game over. The only backing traditional currency has is that people believe in them.
    - simias 8y ago
      The problem with Venezuela is definitely not that people stopped believing in the currency. That's a consequence, not the cause. It's not like people are going to wake up some day and stop believing in the dollar. If the economy of the USA was to collapse however, then that would be a problem.

spookthesunset 8y ago

> Bitcoin is beyond blockchain, companies have built products to trade BTC instantly, free, using the infrastructure already existing If bitcoin is "beyond blockchain", than what is it? Just a table of transactions in a Real Database™? If yes, whats the point? You've just layered a very bank-sounding, very-centralized construct on top of your space-age "trustless" decentralized blockchain. How is it at all revolutionary since you've basically gone and re-invented a much shitter version of the credit card and traditional (evil) fiat banking. > And I dont trust USD like I trust BTC. Historically Fiat currencies are awful. I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. Is it the fact that they have so much invested in the concept that they lose the ability to think clearly? Is it a cult? A religion? I'm not sure, but it sure is an interesting phenomenon.

mkirklions 8y ago
>I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand. I can tell. You seem to think Bitcoin is another inflationary currency. The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that. >How is it at all revolutionary since you've basically gone and re-invented a much shitter version of the credit card and traditional (evil) fiat banking. Like I said, Bitcoin is rare and digital. I think you are complaining about payment processing companies. I have had an excellent experience using these companies with no fees on instant transactions.
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. Provably false. Bitcoin has been forked into multiple chains numerous time, creating many more then 21 million tokens. Given that there is no trademark on the term "Bitcoin", some of these forks can rightfully claim themselves to be The True Bitcoin. In addition, there are thousands of other non-forked blockchains that are nearly identical to bitcoin, save for a few minor configuration changes. > Bitcoin is rare and digital. Absolutely false. Bitcoin is digital and infinitely creditable. This has been proven over and over again.

UncleMeat 8y ago

Okay. I make like maybe ten payments to friends per year. Not exactly a killer app.