4 ms·

I share many of the frustrations mentioned in the article and it motivated me to make my own terminal, Extraterm http://extraterm.org/features.html http://extra

by sime2009 8y ago

I share many of the frustrations mentioned in the article and it motivated me to make my own terminal, Extraterm http://extraterm.org/features.html http://extraterm.org/features.html . It already supports many of the workflows listed in the "Enter Eshell" section. * Long command output is a PITA? fine, Extraterm will 'frame' it and you can easily get to the top of it (Ctrl+Shift+PageUp). * Want keep that output for later? No problem, you can move the frame into its own tab. Hell, you can even drag and drop it into your desktop file manager. * You should have filtered that last command output but you forgot? Extraterm's `from` command will let you feed the contents of a frame back into your shell pipe line. * You did a `cat file-list.txt` and now you want one of those paths? Just go into cursor mode, move up into the frame, edit in the rest of the command and run it. It's a bit like the C=64 again! yay! * You just want to see that image? Sure, `show` command can show it directly. * Sick of composing paths for `scp` to move stuff across machines? Use `show` and `from` directly to download and move binaries. It also integrates with your favourite shell (as long as it either bash, zsh or fish!), and happily works across SSH. It runs Emacs too and any other normal terminal application because it is a proper terminal emulator.

jhasse 8y ago
Here's how I tackle these problems on Linux: > Long command output is a PITA? fine, Extraterm will 'frame' it and you can easily get to the top of it (Ctrl+Shift+PageUp). * Shift+Home to scroll to the top * Shift+PageUp to scroll up * Ctrl+Shift+F and search for " $" to find the beginning of the output * ... | less > Want keep that output for later? No problem, you can move the frame into its own tab. Hell, you can even drag and drop it into your desktop file manager. * ... &> output.txt * Select the output with the mouse and copy it * F10 -> Right -> a (keyboard shortcut for Select All), copy and paste into an editor, remove parts I don't want > You should have filtered that last command output but you forgot? Extraterm's `from` command will let you feed the contents of a frame back into your shell pipe line. Use one of the methods above to get the output into output.txt and then use `cat output.txt`. > You did a `cat file-list.txt` and now you want one of those paths? Just go into cursor mode, move up into the frame, edit in the rest of the command and run it. It's a bit like the C=64 again! yay! Triple-click to select the path, middle-click to paste it. > You just want to see that image? Sure, `show` command can show it directly. `xdg-open` (has the advantage that it opens my image viewer which can also zoom, rotate, show next image, etc.) > Sick of composing paths for `scp` to move stuff across machines? Use `show` and `from` directly to download and move binaries. I'm using my file-manager for uploading / downloading files via SSH. Of course Extraterm will work better for some of these tasks (the first two points are a lot more cumbersome with my methods), but not by that much that I think it's worth it.
- sime2009 8y ago
  Your comment makes some great arguments about just how awful the traditional ways of working in the terminal are. They're often very clumsy and tedious or require additional tools and foresight, e.g. remembering to redirect output to a file. I'm not saying that we couldn't do these things in the past. I will say that easy-of-use matters. Also, a lot of the methods you outlined don't work well across SSH. Extraterm's methods do.
  - jhasse 8y ago
    > Your comment makes some great arguments about just how awful the traditional ways of working in the terminal are. IMHO it's not that awful and 99% of the time you're doing other things anyway. > e.g. remembering to redirect output to a file. But when you forgot to do that, it's not the end of the world, just a little inconvenience involving the mouse. > a lot of the methods you outlined don't work well across SSH. Which ones and why not? The only one I can think of is xdg-open and that can work with `ssh -X`.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I was going to be all "yeah, but I don't run a Linux desktop because I'm not a masochist, so my only use for a terminal is over SSH from Windows.", but you actually support win32 so I assume I can use it with SSH from there. Unfortunately all it does is complain about not having any session types configured, offering precisely no guidance as to what to do about this. The documentation doesn't mention it at all either.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > I don't run a Linux desktop because I'm not a masochist Just run Ubuntu, like I do. Almost as easy to maintain as Windows. Anyway, with Emacs as your OS, whether Linux or Windows is your bootloader is of secondary concern ;).
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > Just run Ubuntu Doesn't actually solve any of the problems I have with Linux as a Desktop. And if I listed those problems someone would just tell me to use a different distribution, which is itself a problem. Or alternatively try to convince me they aren't actually problems "for most people" as though I should give a damn what is and isn't a problem for someone else.
  - p3llin0r3 8y ago
    Agreed. I've run Linux for years with no issues whatsoever. I feel that people who criticize the platform have yet to try it... Though to be fair, if your are running Photoshop or final cut Linux is not a great use case
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      > I've run Linux for years with no issues whatsoever. So clearly no one else has issues, right? None of the people complaining about poor power management, insane application deployment model, poor support for high-end GPUs, general fragmentation, poor backwards and forwards compatibility, or any of the other innumerable problems have ever tried a Linux desktop. This attitude of "it works for me, therefore it is good enough for everybody" is one of the biggest problems I have with Linux. It isn't so much that there are flaws, it's that the community refuses to recognize that there are flaws.

jhasse 8y ago

Here's how I tackle these problems on Linux: > Long command output is a PITA? fine, Extraterm will 'frame' it and you can easily get to the top of it (Ctrl+Shift+PageUp). * Shift+Home to scroll to the top * Shift+PageUp to scroll up * Ctrl+Shift+F and search for " $" to find the beginning of the output * ... | less > Want keep that output for later? No problem, you can move the frame into its own tab. Hell, you can even drag and drop it into your desktop file manager. * ... &> output.txt * Select the output with the mouse and copy it * F10 -> Right -> a (keyboard shortcut for Select All), copy and paste into an editor, remove parts I don't want > You should have filtered that last command output but you forgot? Extraterm's `from` command will let you feed the contents of a frame back into your shell pipe line. Use one of the methods above to get the output into output.txt and then use `cat output.txt`. > You did a `cat file-list.txt` and now you want one of those paths? Just go into cursor mode, move up into the frame, edit in the rest of the command and run it. It's a bit like the C=64 again! yay! Triple-click to select the path, middle-click to paste it. > You just want to see that image? Sure, `show` command can show it directly. `xdg-open` (has the advantage that it opens my image viewer which can also zoom, rotate, show next image, etc.) > Sick of composing paths for `scp` to move stuff across machines? Use `show` and `from` directly to download and move binaries. I'm using my file-manager for uploading / downloading files via SSH. Of course Extraterm will work better for some of these tasks (the first two points are a lot more cumbersome with my methods), but not by that much that I think it's worth it.

sime2009 8y ago
Your comment makes some great arguments about just how awful the traditional ways of working in the terminal are. They're often very clumsy and tedious or require additional tools and foresight, e.g. remembering to redirect output to a file. I'm not saying that we couldn't do these things in the past. I will say that easy-of-use matters. Also, a lot of the methods you outlined don't work well across SSH. Extraterm's methods do.
- jhasse 8y ago
  > Your comment makes some great arguments about just how awful the traditional ways of working in the terminal are. IMHO it's not that awful and 99% of the time you're doing other things anyway. > e.g. remembering to redirect output to a file. But when you forgot to do that, it's not the end of the world, just a little inconvenience involving the mouse. > a lot of the methods you outlined don't work well across SSH. Which ones and why not? The only one I can think of is xdg-open and that can work with `ssh -X`.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I was going to be all "yeah, but I don't run a Linux desktop because I'm not a masochist, so my only use for a terminal is over SSH from Windows.", but you actually support win32 so I assume I can use it with SSH from there. Unfortunately all it does is complain about not having any session types configured, offering precisely no guidance as to what to do about this. The documentation doesn't mention it at all either.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
> I don't run a Linux desktop because I'm not a masochist Just run Ubuntu, like I do. Almost as easy to maintain as Windows. Anyway, with Emacs as your OS, whether Linux or Windows is your bootloader is of secondary concern ;).
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  > Just run Ubuntu Doesn't actually solve any of the problems I have with Linux as a Desktop. And if I listed those problems someone would just tell me to use a different distribution, which is itself a problem. Or alternatively try to convince me they aren't actually problems "for most people" as though I should give a damn what is and isn't a problem for someone else.
- p3llin0r3 8y ago
  Agreed. I've run Linux for years with no issues whatsoever. I feel that people who criticize the platform have yet to try it... Though to be fair, if your are running Photoshop or final cut Linux is not a great use case
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > I've run Linux for years with no issues whatsoever. So clearly no one else has issues, right? None of the people complaining about poor power management, insane application deployment model, poor support for high-end GPUs, general fragmentation, poor backwards and forwards compatibility, or any of the other innumerable problems have ever tried a Linux desktop. This attitude of "it works for me, therefore it is good enough for everybody" is one of the biggest problems I have with Linux. It isn't so much that there are flaws, it's that the community refuses to recognize that there are flaws.