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The Promise of Vaping and the Rise of Juul

25 points by benbreen 8y ago

Clubber 8y ago
I got hooked on cigarettes in the summer after 6th grade, many moons ago when I learned how to inhale. I tried vaping, chewing, and nicorette but it didn't quite cut it. I tried Juul a week or so ago and have only smoked a few cigarettes since and haven't for a few days. It's a godsend. Getting hooked on nicotine isn't a very good idea, but if you are going to do it, Juul or vapes is a relatively healthy way to do it, simply because it won't kill you like cigarettes might. I think all the hysteria from these people in the article is because these people can't disassociate vapes with cigarettes, particularly after the 2 decade long marketing campaign against cigarettes (with quite a bit of hyperbole as evidenced in the article). Long story longer, Juul might finally get me to quit (fingers crossed). Kids are doing it which is dumb, but that's what kids do. Kids my age did the same with cigarettes during my time, so it's going to happen. Thank goodness that today having a nicotine addiction isn't as unhealthy as it was 20+ years ago. One final thought; the only complaint I have with Juul is the disposable pods. They should have some sort of recycling program or something. I can go through a pod a day / day and a half.
- soylentcola 8y ago
  I smoked for around 15 years (from college through my mid 30s) and the only thing that got me to quit was the development of more functional nicotine vaporizers. The old cigarette-looking ones didn't do the trick but I've got a little battery thing that's about the size of two lighters stuck together and a small tank that sits on top. The only real hurdle was getting used to the change in how you use it versus smoking. With smoking, you have a cig, get a massive dose of nicotine, and then it tapers off in your bloodstream over the course of the next hour, leading to that craving for another dose. It's a stimulant so I'd feel a bit cranky and foggy until I had another smoke. With vaporizers it's more like a hookah where I just sort of puff on it throughout the day, getting a lower yet more steady dose. It took a bit of getting used to but it was entirely more effective than any other nicotine replacement I'd tried. More importantly, it was still enjoyable which is something the gums and patches and sprays miss. Since then, I've lowered the amount of nicotine to barely anything (maybe 2-3mg/ml) and read up on how to mix up the liquid so I'm not spending a fortune and I know exactly what goes into that mist I'm occasionally inhaling. I hear so many comedians and read articles where people make fun of "vaping" as super lame and uncool, but I never gave a shit about that to begin with. I just accepted that much like my morning coffee, I like the bit of mental stimulation provided by a bit of nicotine and am thankful that I don't need to inhale tars and carbon monoxide and particulates and all the nasty products of combustion in order to get it. The idea that this is a "cool" thing the way some insist that smoking is just makes me shake my head. RE: the disposable cartridges, I could never really get into that either. I don't like the waste or the cost and always gravitated to the things I could just fill up myself and maybe swap out the wick every week. I'll always spend that 5 minutes a week to avoid buying and tossing packs of plastic bits every couple of days.
  - skate22 8y ago
    Im glad you were able to quit! My only comment is that most stuff ive read claims hookah is a lot worse than having a few cigs. (I dont think you were claiming it was healthy, i just wanted to clarify since you had compared the experience of puffing a vape to hookah) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rwu.edu/sites/default/files/downloads/healtheducation/hookahbrochure.pdf https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
  - dvtv75 8y ago
    > I hear so many comedians and read articles where people make fun of "vaping" as super lame and uncool This comes as a surprise to me, as the majority of people vaping are hipsters, where I am. I do know someone who tried to use it to quit smoking, but that lasted about a week.
    - jstarfish 8y ago
      I used to work with a smoker who tried vaping as a means to quit smoking. Vaping quickly became a way to get his fix in between his regularly scheduled cigarettes.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- csomar 8y ago
  Get a vaping kit (I'm using Vaporesso revenger x~ kit and it is good so far). With the vaping kit you only have to buy the liquid and change the every couple weeks or so (depends on your usage). The problem: What liquid to trust since you are inhaling the thing to your lungs. I don't have an answer for that and wish there was some kind of highly reputable brand to buy from. There is also the option to do it yourself (DIY is very popular in this community) but I have yet to try that. ~ I'm in no way associated with the company and only mentioned it because of the experience.
- BugsJustFindMe 8y ago
  In your comment you seem to strongly differentiate between the words "vape" and "Juul". I'm very curious about this. What do you think makes that difference to you where you say you tried vaping in the past but that it didn't help in the same way? Was the form very different then?
  - fzzzy 8y ago
    Not the person you are replying to, but juul is very, very different from other vapes. The nicotine concentration is much higher and I think it is in a different liquid than any other vape. (I’m having a hard time finding the technical details, but it’s something about a nicotine salt)
- laughfactory 8y ago
  Oh I think it'll help you successfully quit smoking, but man, quitting vaping is another animal in itself. The problem being that vaping is cheap (especially DIY), and it doesn't smell. So there's less incentive to quit, and if you do try holy hell the irritability is horrible for 2-4 days (nicotine withdrawal).
  - wahern 8y ago
    I just spent a mango fog filled weekend and let me tell you, vaping absolutely smells. I grew up around chain-smoking adults and am very supportive of vaping. Both my parents have traded smoking for vaping and we're all thankful. But for the amount of vapor pumped out by monstrous atomizers these days I wonder whether it might be cheaper to just bath in the juice directly, skipping the hassle and expensive of the e-cig.
  - Clubber 8y ago
    Ya quitting nicotine isn't the objective. I've mostly given up on that; it's quitting the harmful delivery mechanism of cigarettes.
thebigspacefuck 8y ago
Why do people care about high schoolers getting addicted to this? Is it the money they'll waste, that they might shorten their lifespan by a couple of years, or just because they'll be addicted? You could say the same things about Coffee, Video Games, or TV. There's so much to be addicted to and so little time. At the same time it helps adults that are already addicted to cigarettes extend their life span, save money, and maybe become less addicted. I fail to see an issue.
- wmeredith 8y ago
  Why do you care about helping adults addicted to cigarettes but not high schoolers addicted to vaping? It's a remarkable cognitive dissonance in your statement.
  - thebigspacefuck 8y ago
    Maybe because cigarettes cause cancer? I personally don't care if people smoke or not. I'm only saying there's little downside to vaping period and from a smoker's perspective, it's helpful.
- Regardsyjc 8y ago
  One because it is illegal. Nicotine smoking age is 21 in the USA. I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that nicotine is way more addictive than coffee, TV, or video games and the problem is that teenagers are already addicted. “You fall asleep with your Juul under your pillow,” my other friend said. “With Juul, the pattern of use isn’t kids having a cherry vape every now and then,” he said. “It’s kids sneaking off to the bathroom, kids vaping consistently throughout the day.”
  - sli 8y ago
    > Nicotine smoking age is 21 in the USA. That is not true. The federal smoking age is 18, and many states do not have a minimum smoking age set at all, only a minimum purchase age.[0] This means they simply defer to federal law. Some states made 21 the purchase age, but it is not federally mandated. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_age#Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_age#Americas
__blockcipher__ 8y ago
To state the obvious, tobacco is far more harmful than you for pure nicotine, but pure nicotine is harmful too - just to a way lesser extent, whereas drugs like cannabis are (physically) completely harmless. It's actually pretty shocking how not-bad-for-you weed is by comparison. I used to think smoking cigarettes was bad because you're inhaling smoke, but it turns out they're bad because you're inhaling a specific kind of pro-inflammatory, oxidative-damage-causing smoke. Whereas something about cannabis, whether it be the antioxidant effect or the different particle size, makes it actually ridiculously safe. [Sorry if I was off topic, but I see a lot of misconceptions about tobacco vs nicotine vs cannabis in terms of relative harm)
- sannee 8y ago
  > pure nicotine is harmful too In what way? A summary [1] I have read some time ago does not seem to suggest nicotine is really harmful in any obviously offputting way. [1] https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#health-issues https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#health-issues
  - eltoozero 8y ago
    Get some strong (high nicotine) vape liquid in your mouth and you’ll understand. You can get moderate nicotine poisoning from vaping or smoking too much too quickly: headache, nausea, it feels gross. I got it real bad from those old Eclipse cigarettes which were basically flame activated vaporizers way ahead of their time. You just couldn’t pause it once it was chooching like you can with every battery operated vape.
  - __blockcipher__ 8y ago
    I've read the same summary. I agree nicotine isn't very bad overall, but inhaling it is definitely not good for your lungs. This is anecdotal but I can feel the difference in respiratory inflammation when vaping a lot as opposed to just smoking/vaporizing weed. And again, tobacco is an order of magnitude worse most likely (if not more). But I highly doubt nicotine is completely harmless to the lungs, throat etc
- nucleardog 8y ago

25 points by benbreen 8y ago

I got hooked on cigarettes in the summer after 6th grade, many moons ago when I learned how to inhale. I tried vaping, chewing, and nicorette but it didn't quite cut it. I tried Juul a week or so ago and have only smoked a few cigarettes since and haven't for a few days. It's a godsend. Getting hooked on nicotine isn't a very good idea, but if you are going to do it, Juul or vapes is a relatively healthy way to do it, simply because it won't kill you like cigarettes might. I think all the hysteria from these people in the article is because these people can't disassociate vapes with cigarettes, particularly after the 2 decade long marketing campaign against cigarettes (with quite a bit of hyperbole as evidenced in the article). Long story longer, Juul might finally get me to quit (fingers crossed). Kids are doing it which is dumb, but that's what kids do. Kids my age did the same with cigarettes during my time, so it's going to happen. Thank goodness that today having a nicotine addiction isn't as unhealthy as it was 20+ years ago. One final thought; the only complaint I have with Juul is the disposable pods. They should have some sort of recycling program or something. I can go through a pod a day / day and a half.

soylentcola 8y ago
I smoked for around 15 years (from college through my mid 30s) and the only thing that got me to quit was the development of more functional nicotine vaporizers. The old cigarette-looking ones didn't do the trick but I've got a little battery thing that's about the size of two lighters stuck together and a small tank that sits on top. The only real hurdle was getting used to the change in how you use it versus smoking. With smoking, you have a cig, get a massive dose of nicotine, and then it tapers off in your bloodstream over the course of the next hour, leading to that craving for another dose. It's a stimulant so I'd feel a bit cranky and foggy until I had another smoke. With vaporizers it's more like a hookah where I just sort of puff on it throughout the day, getting a lower yet more steady dose. It took a bit of getting used to but it was entirely more effective than any other nicotine replacement I'd tried. More importantly, it was still enjoyable which is something the gums and patches and sprays miss. Since then, I've lowered the amount of nicotine to barely anything (maybe 2-3mg/ml) and read up on how to mix up the liquid so I'm not spending a fortune and I know exactly what goes into that mist I'm occasionally inhaling. I hear so many comedians and read articles where people make fun of "vaping" as super lame and uncool, but I never gave a shit about that to begin with. I just accepted that much like my morning coffee, I like the bit of mental stimulation provided by a bit of nicotine and am thankful that I don't need to inhale tars and carbon monoxide and particulates and all the nasty products of combustion in order to get it. The idea that this is a "cool" thing the way some insist that smoking is just makes me shake my head. RE: the disposable cartridges, I could never really get into that either. I don't like the waste or the cost and always gravitated to the things I could just fill up myself and maybe swap out the wick every week. I'll always spend that 5 minutes a week to avoid buying and tossing packs of plastic bits every couple of days.
- skate22 8y ago
  Im glad you were able to quit! My only comment is that most stuff ive read claims hookah is a lot worse than having a few cigs. (I dont think you were claiming it was healthy, i just wanted to clarify since you had compared the experience of puffing a vape to hookah) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rwu.edu/sites/default/files/downloads/healtheducation/hookahbrochure.pdf https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
- dvtv75 8y ago
  > I hear so many comedians and read articles where people make fun of "vaping" as super lame and uncool This comes as a surprise to me, as the majority of people vaping are hipsters, where I am. I do know someone who tried to use it to quit smoking, but that lasted about a week.
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    I used to work with a smoker who tried vaping as a means to quit smoking. Vaping quickly became a way to get his fix in between his regularly scheduled cigarettes.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
csomar 8y ago
Get a vaping kit (I'm using Vaporesso revenger x~ kit and it is good so far). With the vaping kit you only have to buy the liquid and change the every couple weeks or so (depends on your usage). The problem: What liquid to trust since you are inhaling the thing to your lungs. I don't have an answer for that and wish there was some kind of highly reputable brand to buy from. There is also the option to do it yourself (DIY is very popular in this community) but I have yet to try that. ~ I'm in no way associated with the company and only mentioned it because of the experience.
BugsJustFindMe 8y ago
In your comment you seem to strongly differentiate between the words "vape" and "Juul". I'm very curious about this. What do you think makes that difference to you where you say you tried vaping in the past but that it didn't help in the same way? Was the form very different then?
- fzzzy 8y ago
  Not the person you are replying to, but juul is very, very different from other vapes. The nicotine concentration is much higher and I think it is in a different liquid than any other vape. (I’m having a hard time finding the technical details, but it’s something about a nicotine salt)
laughfactory 8y ago
Oh I think it'll help you successfully quit smoking, but man, quitting vaping is another animal in itself. The problem being that vaping is cheap (especially DIY), and it doesn't smell. So there's less incentive to quit, and if you do try holy hell the irritability is horrible for 2-4 days (nicotine withdrawal).
- wahern 8y ago
  I just spent a mango fog filled weekend and let me tell you, vaping absolutely smells. I grew up around chain-smoking adults and am very supportive of vaping. Both my parents have traded smoking for vaping and we're all thankful. But for the amount of vapor pumped out by monstrous atomizers these days I wonder whether it might be cheaper to just bath in the juice directly, skipping the hassle and expensive of the e-cig.
- Clubber 8y ago
  Ya quitting nicotine isn't the objective. I've mostly given up on that; it's quitting the harmful delivery mechanism of cigarettes.

thebigspacefuck 8y ago

Why do people care about high schoolers getting addicted to this? Is it the money they'll waste, that they might shorten their lifespan by a couple of years, or just because they'll be addicted? You could say the same things about Coffee, Video Games, or TV. There's so much to be addicted to and so little time. At the same time it helps adults that are already addicted to cigarettes extend their life span, save money, and maybe become less addicted. I fail to see an issue.

wmeredith 8y ago
Why do you care about helping adults addicted to cigarettes but not high schoolers addicted to vaping? It's a remarkable cognitive dissonance in your statement.
- thebigspacefuck 8y ago
  Maybe because cigarettes cause cancer? I personally don't care if people smoke or not. I'm only saying there's little downside to vaping period and from a smoker's perspective, it's helpful.
Regardsyjc 8y ago
One because it is illegal. Nicotine smoking age is 21 in the USA. I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that nicotine is way more addictive than coffee, TV, or video games and the problem is that teenagers are already addicted. “You fall asleep with your Juul under your pillow,” my other friend said. “With Juul, the pattern of use isn’t kids having a cherry vape every now and then,” he said. “It’s kids sneaking off to the bathroom, kids vaping consistently throughout the day.”
- sli 8y ago
  > Nicotine smoking age is 21 in the USA. That is not true. The federal smoking age is 18, and many states do not have a minimum smoking age set at all, only a minimum purchase age.[0] This means they simply defer to federal law. Some states made 21 the purchase age, but it is not federally mandated. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_age#Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_age#Americas

__blockcipher__ 8y ago

To state the obvious, tobacco is far more harmful than you for pure nicotine, but pure nicotine is harmful too - just to a way lesser extent, whereas drugs like cannabis are (physically) completely harmless. It's actually pretty shocking how not-bad-for-you weed is by comparison. I used to think smoking cigarettes was bad because you're inhaling smoke, but it turns out they're bad because you're inhaling a specific kind of pro-inflammatory, oxidative-damage-causing smoke. Whereas something about cannabis, whether it be the antioxidant effect or the different particle size, makes it actually ridiculously safe. [Sorry if I was off topic, but I see a lot of misconceptions about tobacco vs nicotine vs cannabis in terms of relative harm)

sannee 8y ago
> pure nicotine is harmful too In what way? A summary [1] I have read some time ago does not seem to suggest nicotine is really harmful in any obviously offputting way. [1] https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#health-issues https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#health-issues
- eltoozero 8y ago
  Get some strong (high nicotine) vape liquid in your mouth and you’ll understand. You can get moderate nicotine poisoning from vaping or smoking too much too quickly: headache, nausea, it feels gross. I got it real bad from those old Eclipse cigarettes which were basically flame activated vaporizers way ahead of their time. You just couldn’t pause it once it was chooching like you can with every battery operated vape.
- __blockcipher__ 8y ago
  I've read the same summary. I agree nicotine isn't very bad overall, but inhaling it is definitely not good for your lungs. This is anecdotal but I can feel the difference in respiratory inflammation when vaping a lot as opposed to just smoking/vaporizing weed. And again, tobacco is an order of magnitude worse most likely (if not more). But I highly doubt nicotine is completely harmless to the lungs, throat etc
nucleardog 8y ago