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> The platform remains entirely open. That’d be an argument, if Google removed all of those APIs that were in AOSP and forced people to use their proprietary s

> The platform remains entirely open. That’d be an argument, if Google removed all of those APIs that were in AOSP and forced people to use their proprietary solutions. If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is an official Google diagram describing which parts of Android are open source, and which are proprietary: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/playservicesdiagram2.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/plays... That was 2013, since it’s gotten even far worse. This was 2016: https://www.googlewatchblog.de/wp-content/uploads/android-struktur.jpg https://www.googlewatchblog.de/wp-content/uploads/android-st... Since then, it’s gotten even worse. By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data, or most raw sensors, you can’t run in the background, you can’t access location (except for raw GPS, not even A-GPS) without proprietary libraries. Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries.

lern_too_spel 9y ago
> If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. > If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When background notifications were first made available, they used a Google service and were never part of AOSP for that reason. Chinese phones use other push services inside the firewall. > If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is because Google now updates that library for security. If someone else updates the shared library (because you're in China, for example), you can call that version. Or you can just bundle the library in your app. > By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data. None of those existed on the G1 and are simply sensor fusion implementations on the open sensor APIs. > Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries. Yes, you can. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl You need to understand the difference between the platform and the services that Google provides on top of it.
- kuschku 9y ago
  > This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. Incorrect, in the past your apps could access the raw data and feed it into Mozilla’s Geolocation APIs. This is not possible anymore (but returning in limited form with 9.0). > Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When background notifications were first made available, they used a Google service and were never part of AOSP for that reason. Chinese phones use other push services inside the firewall. Incorrect. Until Android 7.0, apps could run in background and open their own sockets for background notifications. > None of those existed on the G1 and are simply sensor fusion implementations on the open sensor APIs. Incorrect – the open sensor APIs are only available for foreground apps. You can not collect any stepcounter data unless your app is constantly showing a notification in foreground, or is using the Google Fit APIs. > Yes, you can. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl Not on any devices, you’ll need to load bindings through Google Play Services. > You need to understand the difference between the platform and the services that Google provides on top of it. I seriously suggest you actually go and try to build apps for non-Google Play devices at least a single fricken time, or try to build ROMs, before you comment. You’re just making a fool out of yourself.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    Now you are confusing what the platform allows you to do (which has decreased to help battery life) with what the open source platform has implemented for you (which has increased drastically). Every single statement in your post is an example of that. For example, push services, which were never open source, can still be implemented by third parties as a system app. This has always been the case. > I seriously suggest you actually go and try to build apps for non-Google Play devices at least a single fricken time, or try to build ROMs, before you comment. I've built apps for the Amazon App Store and built AOSP from source multiple times. That's not the issue here. The issue is that you were confusing the fact that more of the things on Pixel devices are not open source (true, but Pixel doesn't claim to be an AOSP device) with fewer things being available in open source (which is false) and are now confusing fewer things being allowed to third party apps (true) with fewer things being available in open source (still false).

lern_too_spel 9y ago

> If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. > If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When background notifications were first made available, they used a Google service and were never part of AOSP for that reason. Chinese phones use other push services inside the firewall. > If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is because Google now updates that library for security. If someone else updates the shared library (because you're in China, for example), you can call that version. Or you can just bundle the library in your app. > By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data. None of those existed on the G1 and are simply sensor fusion implementations on the open sensor APIs. > Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries. Yes, you can. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl You need to understand the difference between the platform and the services that Google provides on top of it.

kuschku 9y ago
> This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. Incorrect, in the past your apps could access the raw data and feed it into Mozilla’s Geolocation APIs. This is not possible anymore (but returning in limited form with 9.0). > Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When background notifications were first made available, they used a Google service and were never part of AOSP for that reason. Chinese phones use other push services inside the firewall. Incorrect. Until Android 7.0, apps could run in background and open their own sockets for background notifications. > None of those existed on the G1 and are simply sensor fusion implementations on the open sensor APIs. Incorrect – the open sensor APIs are only available for foreground apps. You can not collect any stepcounter data unless your app is constantly showing a notification in foreground, or is using the Google Fit APIs. > Yes, you can. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl Not on any devices, you’ll need to load bindings through Google Play Services. > You need to understand the difference between the platform and the services that Google provides on top of it. I seriously suggest you actually go and try to build apps for non-Google Play devices at least a single fricken time, or try to build ROMs, before you comment. You’re just making a fool out of yourself.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  Now you are confusing what the platform allows you to do (which has decreased to help battery life) with what the open source platform has implemented for you (which has increased drastically). Every single statement in your post is an example of that. For example, push services, which were never open source, can still be implemented by third parties as a system app. This has always been the case. > I seriously suggest you actually go and try to build apps for non-Google Play devices at least a single fricken time, or try to build ROMs, before you comment. I've built apps for the Amazon App Store and built AOSP from source multiple times. That's not the issue here. The issue is that you were confusing the fact that more of the things on Pixel devices are not open source (true, but Pixel doesn't claim to be an AOSP device) with fewer things being available in open source (which is false) and are now confusing fewer things being allowed to third party apps (true) with fewer things being available in open source (still false).